Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Properties for sale => Topic started by: verbalnoncents on April 19, 2008, 12:54:20 AM
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I am interested in this property and asked my lawyer to do a title search for me and she discovered that there is an outstanding charge on the property from TD bank in the amount of $100 000. Just thought I'd give the heads up...
Joe
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Isn't it considered private lien that will be removed automatically when the property changes hands through tax sale?
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Just wondering when this was mortgage was registered. Is it quite recent??
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Does anyone have a picture?? If it isnt redeemed , which it probably will be, Frank is right about big dollars, Noone is grabbing this for 10k over minimum
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Off the top of my head the mortgage was registered 2001...
I am thinking of bidding on the property but am hesitant with that charge.
I have to see if I can afford that amount of money lol... that means it will cost min $117 000 if you end up having to pay the charge from TD Bank.
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Does anyone have the list of past cottage properties that have sold and how much they sold for above the minimum?
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You had a lawyer do the title search, Did he not explain this to you??? YOU DONT PAY THE MORTGAGE. The mortgage is voided by the tax sale. That is why it will likely redeem and not be sold. This guy bought this in 2001 , borrowed 100k , He would still owe 75 . Bank is notified of the sale as is the owner, Even if the owner walked, the bank would pay the taxes and then power of sale the property out from under him.
Was it a private mortgage or a bank??
By the way ..dont even bother bidding 17..this will be 10 x that amount unless its burned out.
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By the way ..dont even bother bidding 17..this will be 10 x that amount unless its burned out.
I wonder who can come up with this much cash since getting mortage for a tax sale property is almost impossible.
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I went up to look at this property - I think it's worth somewhere in the $300,000 - $400,000 range (IMHO). I then got the title from the land registry office on April 9th. I don't see a mortgage registered on title. There are two entries, 1) LT223065 - transfer of 217,000 on 2001/10/12, and 2) MT26834 - certificate of $5,692 on 2006/12/05. I did not do an execution search on the owners or on the registration numbers. Lastly, I contacted the owner's to see if I could offer any help out of their dilemma, but they were extremely rude. As stated all mortgages would disappear if it is not redeemed. I still haven't made up my mind if I will bid on this knowing it will be redeemed at the last second - probably a waste of time. Still, I would love to see someone get it at a good price. Any takers out there?
I also looked at the house in Bala. Minimum Tender Amount: $31,177.27 The house is a disaster, the lot is horrible. I don't think it's worth the minimum.
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I contacted the owner's to see if I could offer any help out of their dilemma, but they were extremely rude.
Why on earth would you contact the owner?????
Your estimate of value might be a bit high, is that a landfill site to the west of the property or just a very large quarry operation. It's on a very small lake, albeit in a lovely area, and will have lots of road noise coming at it. Cottage appears quite unkept from the outside....usually that means the same on the inside....single pane slider windows, oil furnace (yuk). I would say that your estimate of final market value .... once you've put a good suit and tie on it and spent some money modernizing it, is a bit high.
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I also looked at the house in Bala. Minimum Tender Amount: $31,177.27 The house is a disaster, the lot is horrible. I don't think it's worth the minimum.
It would make a good test burn for the local fire department.
Was that you parked in the pick-up out front on Friday afternoon, or were you in the small car trying to find the river lot...with no success obviously cause you were a block away. You do see the strangest faces when out looking at these properties, and they are all looking at their paperwork with puzzled looks on their faces.
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"Lastly, I contacted the owner's to see if I could offer any help out of their dilemma, but they were extremely rude."
First ...You are high on the value. It is a small lake less then 1/2 mile long loaded with houses
.next..ARE YOU AN IDIOT??? Why on earth would you contact the owner ??? So If I get this right , You drive 4 hours to get to a cottage, then you spend time doing a title search, then you....Call the owner to see if you can lend him 8 grand to bail him out!!!!!.. This, the owner, who has ignored tax notices for 4 years, Who simply figures everyone else should pay taxes for schools, roads,hospitals etc but he doesnt have to.
I dont know about you , but I pay over 5 k a year just for my main house, I sure as hell do not feel sorry for someone who freeloads and doesnt pay taxes. Next time you write the check to your city..think of these people who freeload ..you are helping him out as you are paying his bill for him ..
This is not a orphanage where the poor children will be tossed onto the street , These are people who bought a cottage in the muskokas and simply cant be bothered to pay their tax bill. Next time you have an urge to "help someone out" donate a 100 to the united way
Well if there was any chance it wouldnt be redeemed and would slip thru ( although small) , Its gone now
..Good Job
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Why on earth would you contact the owner?????
Simple: to try and get information on the situation.
.next..ARE YOU AN IDIOT??? Why on earth would you contact the owner ??? So If I get this right , You drive 4 hours to get to a cottage, then you spend time doing a title search, then you....Call the owner to see if you can lend him 8 grand to bail him out!!!!!.. This, the owner, who has ignored tax notices for 4 years, Who simply figures everyone else should pay taxes for schools, roads,hospitals etc but he doesnt have to.
No, you did not "get this right". What you obviously fail to see is there is more than one way to get this property. I'm sure others have wondered if the owner would be willing to solve his problems by selling the property before the tax sale (at a discount of course). There are so many other ways to negotiate this deal into a win-win for you and the owner. Your conclusion of giving the owner money as a loan is not well thought out.
Your estimate of value might be a bit high, is that a landfill site to the west of the property or just a very large quarry operation. It's on a very small lake, albeit in a lovely area, and will have lots of road noise coming at it. Cottage appears quite unkept from the outside....usually that means the same on the inside....single pane slider windows, oil furnace (yuk).
The property was purchased in 2001 for 217,000. At a conservative estimate, Muskoka properties have increased at 5% year over year. Doing the math it means the property is worth 305,000 in 2008 due to the hot real estate market alone. Also, if you do a search for similar properties for sale you will find 1144 Clearwater Shores for sale for 419,000. I didn't see a landfill site to the west, just trees. I didn't hear any road noise while I was there. I thought the cottage looked pretty good from the outside, just some eavestroughing to be replaced. The basement looked full height. Yes oil heat but what else is there? Are we looking at the same property (1166 Clearwater shores)?
P.S. I joined this group to share information and try to help one another. If replies to my posts are going to begin with name calling and bewilderment then I will no longer be sharing my insight as it will be a waste of my time.
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The theory of buying at a discount? He could simply sell the property on MLS in 2 or 3 days. Or to a friend in a day , He only has 200 K tied up in it, could get out in with a profit in 1 day. Why would he sell it to you in a "win win" I believe you got your answer from him and I believe there was a F U in the sentence.
Well thought out..He is 8 k behind in taxes ( min bid includes large fees) and he will sell it to a stranger for 100K under value just because he never thought of selling it or couldnt come up with the money . 8 k is a simple credit card swipe . If his cards are maxed , He could borrow 8 k on the property from the bank in a day on a line of credit, probably wouldnt even have to show up, simple phone call.
If he was willing to lose his shirt, it would be to friends or family, Not a stranger
In regards to local sales 1144 did not sell for 419, that is what it listed for , It has 2558.44 M2 lot which is much larger and what its condition. There is others in the area that went for much much less and what was their condition? Also based on the frenzy in the muskokas, tons of stuff has been going off at twice its true value, But incase you didnt read the Globe on friday..Its official..18% drop in sales..despite what remax agents say , the boom is over. Would have ended last year if the banks didnt add the 40 year mortgage option so more people could dig themselves into a debt on a house they cant afford.
When booms end, the cottages are the first to get slaughtered in pricing, especially the muskokas as they have been the silliest of the lot. Additionally the Muskoka stupidity has been powered by US buyers , who have evaporated as they have a tiny little problem in the US Real estate market. Well if you consider a collapse worse then 89 and approaching 1930 numbers as being a little problem. Anyone who bought there in the last 2 or 3 years ( maybe longer ) will not get their money out this summer and many will lose large. By fall (next spring at the latest) all speculators up there will be fireselling.
In case you havent done the math, If a US buyer purchased a property 3 years ago in Muskoka, He can sell it for 30% less then he paid and still break even. With the US collapse many are scrambling for cash to cover their butts or to go bargain hunting at home. I know of one piece right now where the lender has 1.5 mill worth of paper on the cottage , 6 months in arrears and he cant POS it without a 30 % loss if he is lucky ..He is a private lender and not feeling too good right now.
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The theory of buying at a discount? He could simply sell the property on MLS in 2 or 3 days. Or to a friend in a day , He only has 200 K tied up in it, could get out in with a profit in 1 day. Why would he sell it to you in a "win win" I believe you got your answer from him and I believe there was a F U in the sentence.
I only go by experience. A friend of mine negotiated with a fellow who was sure he could clear up his mortgage before bank repo. He ended up selling to my friend 3 days before reposession. The guy didn'e even tell his wife up to then. My point is you don't know their situation and can't be sure if you don't try. I never did get to speak to him about the property, he tried to pretend he didn't understand english although he spoke to me in perfect english. This showed me that he probably does have a way out of this.
In regards to local sales 1144 did not sell for 419, that is what it listed for , It has 2558.44 M2 lot which is much larger and what its condition. There is others in the area that went for much much less and what was their condition? Also based on the frenzy in the muskokas, tons of stuff has been going off at twice its true value, But incase you didnt read the Globe on friday..Its official..18% drop in sales..despite what remax agents say , the boom is over. Would have ended last year if the banks didnt add the 40 year mortgage option so more people could dig themselves into a debt on a house they cant afford.
I didn't say I knew what any cottages sold for. I said that was the list price. If I was going to make a bid I would then do comps on sales. I agree with you that this property is not as nice. One proplem is a non-existant shoreline - the cottage has a short distance to an overhang looking over the lake. Can you share your comps with us regarding sale prices? As far as the boom being over, I agree you have to be very carefull these days, but I think with up-front investigation such as this your risk will be lowered enough.
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"Lastly, I contacted the owner's to see if I could offer any help out of their dilemma, but they were extremely rude. As stated all mortgages would disappear if it is not redeemed. "
To be quite honest I think that your intentions were not well thought out. If you want to get a good price on a tax sale why would you search down the owner and let them know that they have to pay their taxes a few days before they are due?
That's up to them to find out. The person is obviously an idiot not paying taxes since they bought the property.
Next time think through these mindless actions.
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Gotta agree with Pfm1011, there are some real flaws in the logic about contacting the current owner. Can't see them responding to a total stranger when they have not bothered to respond to the Township over this matter for several years.
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I have had two nasty disagreement with my contacting the owner. I'm sorry I brought it up - I should have kept that tactic to myself. I just have to say that I have bought and made considerable money contacting owner's directly (See Robert Allen). I have bought tax sale properties, for-sale-by-owner properties, recreational properties, residential properties, and commercial properties. I am currently buying an 18 unit apartment building. I do this full time. I was hoping to share ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs and perhaps pass along some new ways of doing things that might get people some properties.
My philosophy of always trying to co-operate instead of compete has worked very well for me over the years. I don't see any of that in this forum and so it is not for me. I will keep reading but regretfully not posting.
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Perhaps another forum would have been more appropriate to have explained what you have now iidentified as your "tactic."
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I have had two nasty disagreement with my contacting the owner. I'm sorry I brought it up - I should have kept that tactic to myself. I just have to say that I have bought and made considerable money contacting owner's directly (See Robert Allen). I have bought tax sale properties, for-sale-by-owner properties, recreational properties, residential properties, and commercial properties. I am currently buying an 18 unit apartment building. I do this full time. I was hoping to share ideas with like-minded entrepreneurs and perhaps pass along some new ways of doing things that might get people some properties.
My philosophy of always trying to co-operate instead of compete has worked very well for me over the years. I don't see any of that in this forum and so it is not for me. I will keep reading but regretfully not posting.
Unfortunately, you missed the boat, this is a competition...one in which we spend time and money researching properties in the hopes of getting the best deal we can. I've heard that there are people like you out there who approach tax sale property owners in order to scoop the property for less than market (and obviously more than it would fetch in a tax sale).
You are quite correct this is not the forum for you. good bye.
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What's the fuss?
I don't believe uga is the only one who has contacted the owner or at least thought about doing the same. I confess I thought about it. I would call the owner for the same reason. All you guys are in business. Ain't that still a fair game?
One of other reasons I would call the owner is to find out what makes him or her let go of what he or she has invested $100k for by not paying property tax which added up only to a fraction of his or her investment and probably ruin his or her entire credit for it. What goes through his or her mind and what kind of life experience/hardship he or she is having.
Uga is here to share info and experience with good intention. I can't imagine what a "mean" place this forum will become without honest people like him. For this reason, he has my support. Stay on and keep up the good work, pal.
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Contacting the owner makes total sense in a potential POS when he owes a bank 300 k and they are coming to take the house, It takes months to sell a house so the owner is over a barrel and will sell private to avoid the foreclosure and save his credit or possible debt after repossession. Of course this is a taxsale forum, not a POS forum....
In a tax sale , its just damn stupid, the tax is a minor amount compared to the value and he isn't over a barrel , not a deep barrel anyways..The only reasons not to pay the tax is..bankruptcy, executions, owner is dead, land is worth less then tax, owner is a d*ckhead.
Sorry but I hardly believe a successful real estate trader wishes to share knowledge.. Business is competition. I can assure you that with 1500 members, many are pros , or semi pros but they aren't handing out secrets. Nor should they.
The sharing of knowledge here is only on pieces you don't want, You are dreaming if you think anyone is going to tell anyone on here about a good deal, The point of this place is to tell people about bad deals so none of us waste time, IE You don't have to drive 300 miles to find out something is Sh*t and I don't want to do the same. There is a ton of crap out there and we need each others help wading thru it all. But if you find a diamond, its every man ( or woman) for themselves.
How to tell if land may be a good deal..NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT
Example: No one discussed Ridge rd or Wellington st in Hamilton..We were too busy looking at John Deere brochures or planning kitchen renos . This is a competition.. But the minute I found out they were redeemed , I posted it so no one wasted their time. I hope everyone will do the same with other pieces .
When I asked a question about a certificate of validation , no one answered because the people who knew the answer also knew I was referring to the Ridge rd property. By answering my question, they are providing me information I can use to win the deal. ( steal the deal from them) They didn't want to help me, which is completely fair and what I expected. If the shoe was on the other foot..I wouldn't answer either. I sure as hell wouldn't disclose that the greenzoning on it still allowed it to be split in to two lots and the winner would make an instant 3 or 4 hundred on the deal minimum. That piece was Diamond, hence..no discussion
The reason people share info here is self serving. If I warn you about the pollution in Mississippi mills, I save you from taking a bullet, I hope you will return the favour and warn me on another piece in the future..By saving you I hope to save myself. Sort of a England and Russia team up against Hitler.. We aren't friends but we help ourselves by helping each other. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, our common enemy is wasting time on bad lots. ( and apparently guys who contact the owners directly trying to scoop a deal )
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PFM
All very sage advice no doubt.
However, it is academic now as the cottage on Henshaw was redeemed this morning (as I originally predicted it would be).
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... However, it is academic now as the cottage on Henshaw was redeemed this morning (as I originally predicted it would be).
It's everybody's prediction I believe. Whatever you do on this is just a way of experiencing things. In that sense, uga definitely made a smart move.
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I'll not drag this out any further, you are correct in that experience is in the doing. However, the learners are not listening to the wisdom of their elders and costing all of us. Somehow I am beginning to think that my posts here are somewhat counter-productive and the whole thing will self-destruct. What is the point of having a tax sale, if Uga is going to save everyone from themselves. There's not much that is worth anything that gets to final sale in the first place, and as it was astutely put, these people aren't tax-payers so why do they deserve the time of day in the first place.
Anyone who thought that Ridge Road would make it was also dreaming in techni-colour... the answer to your question regarding cerficate of validation was intuitively obvious, anyone who has ever severed a piece of property would know.
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Frank,
I think just by the posts alone most people can tell who's who on here. By that I mean who know's what they are talking about. That is the impression I'm getting and I am very very new to this. I have NOT bought a tax sale "yet" and I am learning lots on this forum. I only wished I had found it sooner.
I would never dream of contacting the owner, only because I would really feel that would be counter productive and I wouldn't get anywhere with it anyways. Some people may have the "gift" of talking people into selling their property to someone over the phone, however I am not one of those people. As for a Tax Sale....I'm looking for the right one for me. Will it come around?? Maybe maybe not, but I'll have fun looking.
I was disappointed on the Bala Lot. Thought maybe this was the one, but I know in my heart it wasn't the kind of property I'm looking for ...water level (yikes and the road noise). Very close is the one across the road with the big for sale sign that is listed at 299,000 (4 acres, 1010 waterfrontage, + 2.2 acre backlot and an addition piece of an island) Don't need all the extra stuff but it is a sweet lot. I don't have that kind of coin but for someone out there it is. Sorry off topic.
on that note....I'm still paying attention
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I'm just curious how many people put a bid on the property?
And if you dont mind how much were you hoping to "steal" it for ;)
Unfortunately, I missed the shipping deadline boat and wasn't able to get my ducks in a row to send up the offer by the fedex deadline of 5pm to get there by end of day tomorrow.
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I'm new so, I did send in a bid. Wanted to at least go through "the process." Agreed that it would likely be redeemed. Sent the bid via Xpresspost, it shows it was rec'd by the post office on April 18 @ 9:39am, they attempted delivery and left a card on April21@10:42am. I'm pretty sure the township office would have been open at this time. Is there a better way to do this other than Xpresspost, or do you need to incur the costs of a courier. Like I said, I'm new and looking for some advice.
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The 20 dollars for fedex will seem like nothing if
A: Post office loses you money order and you have to spend hours at the bank and wait a month or two to get your money back or
B: The post office delivers one day late and you find out you would have been high bid if you only spent a few dollars more for Fedex but you missed the deadline...
The extra 15 for fedex is money well spent
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Looks like no one else wants to admit that they send in a bid even though most agree that it would be redeemed.
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Looks like no one else wants to admit that they send in a bid even though most agree that it would be redeemed.
I wanted to wait untill the last minute. And I was right it was redeemed before last minute. :D
To verbalnoncents, I was hoping to "steal" it for $155,000. Did I beat everybody in here? ;)
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To verbalnoncents, I was hoping to "steal" it for $155,000. Did I beat everybody in here? ;)
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You would have probably close to $100,000 shy of the winning bid.
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I was going to send a $100,111.11 bid...so you beat me by 50k ::)
The interior was actually in decent condition (my team had a peek through the windows). With about 10-20k rehab that cottage would have been a nice sell...oh well it was redeemed. >:( But good for the owner I guess...they only have like 7k in tax arrears.
Jayz, were you the guy we met when we go visit? We were the team of two guys and one girl.
Good luck bidding on the next one to all of you ;)
Daniel Yen
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To verbalnoncents, I was hoping to "steal" it for $155,000. Did I beat everybody in here? ;)
You would have probably close to $100,000 shy of the winning bid.
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One thing good about this property is it's at the end of the road with lots of private space. However it's on a very small lake with a traffic road across. I would buy it at this price, but wouldn't compete against some crazy rich guys.
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Jayz, were you the guy we met when we go visit? We were the team of two guys and one girl.
Good luck bidding on the next one to all of you ;)
Daniel Yen
Wasn't me. I met a well dressed couple though.
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I saw a couple leaving there driving a new Honda Pilot, they were also checking the Moon River, Bala spot when I was there. Would that have perhaps been any of you folks??
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Jayz, were you the guy we met when we go visit? We were the team of two guys and one girl.
Good luck bidding on the next one to all of you ;)
Daniel Yen
Wasn't me. I met a well dressed couple though.
I've suggested this in the past, and haven't seen anyone at the sales with one yet. If you all wear a smiley face :) like the walmart greeters do, on your lapel, then you will know that person is from the web-site, and you can introduce yourselves...maybe develop new partnerships (even god-parents for the kids some day), who knows.
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Frank the smiley face is a good idea, If you don't have one convenient ,draw a big one on the back of the papers your holding . Frank wont need one as everyone will recognize him from his picture, hahahaha
You think the high bid would have be in the 250 range?? I didn't drive up but was just going to go blind . Jayz would have beat me but I'm not a big fan of little lots on tiny lakes so I could have cared less if I won. Would have been a clean and flip fast . It would have to have been an absolute steal for me. I was going in around 125 knowing my chances were not much better then a snowballs in hell but not caring if I lost.
I also really believe that Muskoka ( all cottages) is going to get slaughtered by years end. Too many deals in the US. Muskoka was powered by US speculators ( and Canadians buying in the frenzy caused by them)and purchased based on the equity built on your primary house. The Americans can sell today at 35% below what they paid 3 or 4 years ago and break even. So you can absolutely forget appreciation in all markets and huge depreciation in the cottage market. All it takes to crack the market is one or two out cheap , same as what drove it up. Of course you wont see the bargains in the "what it sold for" section as the realtors cant have the real prices coming out when that happens.
I'm a doom and gloomer but I think that thing wont even pull 250 by summers end as it is small lake and old building . There is going to be a pile of nicer ones being fire-saled up there. Cottages don't get a spring boom like house trying to get the summer close for school .They sell in August, Sept after people hang at a friends cottage and think..wouldn't this be nice.. hence the realtor cockroaches can keep the BS up till Oct then even they will have a hard time finding a sucker. ( despite Bank of Canada ,CMHC, CRA etc the Toronto Real estate board and Royal Lepage are still spewing " nows the time to buy" BS, Lets just not mention the 18% drop in sales)
All the smart money is running south of the border. Florida, Arizona South Carolina,etc are all getting slaughtered and by fall Florida will be completely wiped as there is a pile of new builds coming online due to completion. Article in globe estimate 30 to 40% walkaway from deposits. Florida is seeing houses going at 60% to 70 % off last year (however that is really just back to 2000 prices due to the stupidity of the last couple years down there) add in our 35% increase in the dollar and we have a recipe for some bargains for Canadians. A total reverse of what powered our cottage market stupidity.
(blah blah blah listen to me..blah blah blah , I'm all knowing blah blah blah I'm so smart.blah blah blah ....Long winded idiot aren't I )
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Unlike you, I am quite comfortable with the Muskoka market. I am building there right now. The American money you speak of is not the stuff to cut and run...mostly people that have way more than you or I can every think of having. There is still a huge pent up demand for cottages.
Even though the deals are there in Florida, I can't even think about buying there. Nice place to visit for a few weeks, but if I owned a place there, I would have to commit to going there regular and for extended stays...and I'm not about to tie myself down to something so far away (I don't have my own personal leer jet available). I have friends that spend six months of the year there, and I'm sure that for some people that is their cup of tea..but not mine.
Clearly you would have been wasting your money and time with $125. Where in Muskoka would you be able to buy a cottage like that one for $250???? ..and, right around the corner from Port Carling. I'm only suggesting that would be the price as it is impossible to estimate its true worth without a detailed interior inspection. Did they vent the roof properly or is it all rotten underneath? Were the foundations pinned properly, or are they ready to go, and you need structural work to keep it from sliding into the lake? These are things that you know up front when you buy on the market, but are secret in tax sale, therefore I would have to assume it would come in less than market, but still quite high for a tax sale. 8)
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I also really believe that Muskoka ( all cottages) is going to get slaughtered by years end. Too many deals in the US. Muskoka was powered by US speculators ( and Canadians buying in the frenzy caused by them)and purchased based on the equity built on your primary house. The Americans can sell today at 35% below what they paid 3 or 4 years ago and break even. So you can absolutely forget appreciation in all markets and huge depreciation in the cottage market. All it takes to crack the market is one or two out cheap , same as what drove it up. Of course you wont see the bargains in the "what it sold for" section as the realtors cant have the real prices coming out when that happens.
I'd like to know who these US speculators are? Muskoka was founded on Bay street yuppies and old money more than anything. Very very very few cottages in Muskoka are bought for primarily investment purposes. The odd piece of land.. perhaps, but that has little to do with speculation, it's more about supply and demand. You're really better off buying commercial real estate considering the risks involved (natural disasters that insurance won't cover).
The market won't get "cracked". The prices are probably more stable there than they are in the Greater Toronto Area. Real estate his went up in value 18 of the past 20 years, and the two down years were modest reductions.
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The old money has been up there for years and they arent going anywhere. They hate the boom just as much as their lakes are being crowded and their tax bills insane.. Over the last 3 to 4 years prices up there have gone insane. 3 or 4 years ago there were very very few piece that would command north of a million and they were huge family compounds with stunnng cottages. Now they are asking north of 500 k for 100 ft of empty lot frontage. The price increases in the muskokas is the highest in the country by a huge margin
RE Florida: I find alot of the place boring (except South Beach and the Keys) I got stuck for a month in Daytona once, felt like a scene from Deliverence ( kept hearing Dualing Banjo's and squelling pigs in my head) .( Mind you I got stuck for a month in South Beach Miami and I had to be dragged out of there kicking ) however many like the place especially Gulf coast (Naples= Oakville) and its a good buy for future retirement and family vacation. The money that flows into there on deals, doesnt flow here. Dont like Florida weather , Vermont and Upstate New York has got the same deals.
You cant seriously be suggesting that Muskoka real estate hasnt been "beyond insane" over the last couple years. Of course Im in Oakville so if you want to talk insane price increases....
Im a firm believer in the 7% annual formula. Anything above that always gets "corrected" ( 5.6 over the last 25 including the crash of the early nineties)
GTA commercial today is a real bad bet due to the last two years. Warehouse has gone from 65 to 130 with a 4 a foot net return. ICI Realtors dont call is Sh*tty ROI. They now call it "diminishing returns". I got taken out of a deal in Oakville where a moron paid 190 a ft for warehouse.
Again commercial has been powered by the pensions which stopped at 90 to 100 but the punters jumped on to "ride the wave". Commercial finally reached 1989 prices in 2004 . So any commercial buyer from 88 to 90 finally broke even after 15 years. (not counting cost of money)
We can banter back and forth but this is a "wait and see who's right" on this one. Lets revisit this one next year.