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1  Tax Sale Forum / General / Re: Re: RUN RUN RUN Simcoe on: April 09, 2019, 05:00:11 AM
Thanks Pfm.....sounds like a real steal....we should send Dave a private message about this great deal and see if we can get him hooked on it, he might even be good for that beer.  Cool

Sorry Frank no beer from me:

there were better opportunities in Windsor getting a residential property for you.
2  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Re: Re: Happy Holiday Season on: December 30, 2018, 06:51:39 AM
Get your party hats on.    Cool 


If you are going to a party you need a suitable vehicle to get you there and back.   How about a new Lamborghini.

3  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Happy Holiday Season on: December 22, 2018, 06:09:50 PM
Just wishing everyone a good holiday season and a happy new year
4  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Re: Re: Provincial lands on: December 09, 2018, 06:44:08 PM

I guess we will all be fighting over the Oakville properties, may the smartest man not the deepest pocket win!


Actually I thought you and Frank would fight for the Windsor Property as rumour has it you guys make "like bandits' in this business.

Still can't figure though what a jail is doing in a district zoned for

Zoning: Institutional District ? Place of Entertainment and Recreation, -----------------     
5  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Re: Re: Oh Oh - Deed Registration got tougher for Tax Sale Players on: October 27, 2018, 03:44:26 PM
Dave is well studied in this situation, and knows whereof he speaks.   I have also personally experienced this situation (no thanks to Curtis).  The solution to this and other similar post-sale redemptions is for the Province to over-rule the courts by way of legislation that specifically bars post-sale redemptions....which would end the nail-biting.

Not sure that this will ever happens as the Province doesn't care that we are out of pocket on the whole ordeal, their end game is to provide the Municipalities with a sure fire method of collecting taxes one way or the other.   Cool


Unfortunately I don't think legislation will change because the province makes too much money from the current system they created where they grab all excess proceeds unlike the old days when the local municipality got them.   For a current example look at the tax sale results for 20 Bursthall Street in Marmora and Lake which I stupidly missed because I mistakenly investigated one in the opposite direction that turned out to have large CRA liens and figured Bursthall would redeem for sure. (I don't have infinite time and money to investigate all tax sale opportunities and of course I looked at the wrong one).    Cry

The winning bid for this Marmora property was almost $129,000 against outstanding taxes of $25,000.   In the old days the local treasurer had an incentive to expedite deed registration because this unexpected windfall helped balance the budget .   Today the province takes the excess proceeds of over $100,000 and the local municipality only gets their $25,000 in tax revenues.   In the old days as a result the treasurer had an incentive to keep deed registration moving unlike now where the registrar (who works for the province)
from an out of county location who registers someone elses property in another township.  The province doesn't care because they will pay the cost anyways.  

I used to be able to expedite things by reminding people of that fact. Of course no one wants to deal with us vultures anyways so we lose in the end.  It gets done but has definitely slowed down.  Because the township only gets their taxes they also seem to be giving people a second chance as we are facing more cases where property has been up for tax sale before but was canceled to try and give the defaulting taxpayer a reasonable chance to pay.

 One of these days I will get smart like old timers like you who seem to figure out what redeems and what will not redeem and also does not have Revenue Canada's fingers in the pie.        
6  Tax Sale Forum / Property Information / Re: Interesting Risks on Upcoming Trent Hills Tax Sale - Postscript on: October 26, 2018, 10:52:59 PM
Some interesting risks on the upcoming Trent Hills tax sale (more then 1 property)

221 Banta Road (Warkworth) former meth lab.  

Proving either of these properties saleable even if there are no problems is expensive.   Standard Phase 1 environmental costs are about $3,000 and Phase II costs are about $4,000 (PER BORE HOLE) including taxes (HST) for both.  

I am not certain if there is a surcharge for former meth labs.  

Unfortunately someone (not me) bought it and I hope they suffer no ill effects. My summary only covered the raw materials and there are serious issues with the final product as well. 
7  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Oh Oh - Deed Registration got tougher for Tax Sale Players on: October 26, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
In this game if you are the winning bidder the process of winning is not complete until the property deed is registered in your name.   Post sale redemption of a property is a real risk and is doubly concerning because you have come so close but were cheated at the last minute.   That is why the deed registration is a time sensitive activity and it is so important
to get this properly and speedily done.

Starting at the beginning; registration of a tax sale deed is not a normal deed registration and the so called automated system has to be manually overridden by the county registrar.  You have to know what you are doing and you may have noticed if you have won anything lately that more and more townships are involving their lawyer.  The problem is now in a supposed move to improve efficiency since late last year the lawyer does not deal with the local county registrar which in my home county of Northumberland is located in Cobourg.  

Instead when they submit an application for a tax sale deed registration they are now allocated to any registrar in the province.   The problem is if the township lawyer draws an isolated part of the province with few tax sales the registrar there is not familiar with the process.    Historically in a county like Northumberland this was not a problem because there are 8 -10 tax sales a year so the local registrar was/is familiar with the process.   In a small rural county like moose pasture Ontario the tax sales are much less frequent and often then the selected registrar will engage their lawyer.  To register the deed now two lawyers are involved and they have to select a time when both are available.  Suffice to say that lawyers involved have a different view then you and I about the urgency of this process.      

Personally I have encountered this (yes I do occasionally win one) and it is one of the most frustrating situations you will face.   Try to expedite the process when the lawyers are not in a rush.   Angry    The one case that you may avoid this seems to be If Ontario Tax Sales is involved on behalf of the township.   Dave and Jeff seem to have found a solution to this problem as my experience is they do it fast and very professionally.  

Just another cross we have to bear. I am not the only person who has encountered this problem.  See Bee's posts.        

8  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Re: Determining Property Boundary(ies) on: October 17, 2018, 05:23:49 PM
I recently won the Tehkummah bid for 25 more acres on my beloved Manitoulin.  There isn't any longitude or latitude coordinates for the property stakes in any of the paperwork for either of my properties.  I won a 100 acre tax sale, one lot over a couple years ago.  Does anyone know where I could access the stake info without having to go to a surveyor?  I went to the twp office and they are not up to date with their planning maps. Hoping someone has the answer.


Could you please Private Message me.    I have a couple of suggestions that I consider commercially sensitive and require an understanding of your plans for the property.   This is not a subject for public discourse on the board and I apologize if I offend other members.    Note I would be surprised if this property and the adjacent one you have, have ever been surveyed.   For large rural properties the survey cost is typically much more then people realize, almost as much as your winning bid.

One question I can ask publically is do you have access to a GPS.   Note as well what I will propose will require you to do a site visit.

9  Tax Sale Forum / Property Information / Re: Re: Interesting Risks on Upcoming Trent Hills Tax Sale on: October 08, 2018, 01:39:43 PM
Is a local guy is trying to scare everybody away?  


If you don't want to believe me why don't you read this article from Scientific American.    

Meth Labs are serious stuff and I hope I do scare everyone away as all I wanted was to warn people about this case.   Here are some of the raw material dangers.

Here are just some of the dangerous things one may face when entering a suspected meth lab site:  Chemical Hazards

Pseudoephedrine: Ingestion of doses greater than 240 mg causes hypertension, arrhythmia, anxiety, dizziness, and vomiting. Ingestion of doses greater than 600 mg can lead to renal failure and seizures.

Acetone/ ethyl alcohol:  Extremely flammable, posing a fire risk in and around the laboratory. Inhalation or ingestion of these solvents causes severe gastric irritation, narcosis, or coma.

Freon: Inhalation can cause sudden cardiac arrest or severe lung damage. It is corrosive if ingested.

Anhydrous ammonia: A colorless gas with a pungent, suffocating odor. Inhalation causes edema of the respiratory tract and asphyxia. Contact with vapors damages eyes and mucous membranes.

Red phosphorus: May explode as a result of contact or friction. Ignites if heated above 260? C. Vapor from ignited phosphorus severely irritates the nose, throat, lungs, and eyes.

Hypophosphorous acid: Extremely dangerous substitute for red phosphorus. If overheated, deadly phosphine gas is released. Poses a serious fire and explosion hazard.

Lithium metal: Extremely caustic to all body tissues. Reacts violently with water and poses a fire or explosion hazard.

Hydriodic acid: A corrosive acid with vapors that are irritating to the respiratory system, eyes, and skin. If ingested, causes severe internal irritation and damage that may cause death.

Iodine crystals: Give off vapor that is irritating to respiratory system and eyes. Solid form irritates the eyes and may burn skin. If ingested, cause severe internal damage.

Phenylpropanolamine:  Ingestion of doses greater than 75 mg causes hypertension, arrhythmia, anxiety, and dizziness. Quantities greater than 300 mg can lead to renal failure, seizures, stroke, and death.

Obviously I wasted the time and expense to find out this risk but that is a cost of doing this business and being local I have access to information that non local people do not have.      What I don't understand is why you would look at a property like this now; as there are all sorts of apparently good tax sales coming up shortly all over the province.  

Of course if you want to specialize in this type of property there is another different one (former service station) coming up in the appropriately named township of "Oil Springs"  
10  Tax Sale Forum / Property Information / Re: Re: Interesting Risks on Upcoming Trent Hills Tax Sale on: October 03, 2018, 06:27:23 AM

If you are in the hole boring business, then that motto makes perfect sense.  Cool  


These babies are a little tougher to remediate or upgrade then (former??)city slickers like Frank are used to.

In addition to the former meth lab, Banta road's buildings are falling down or open to the elements.   Then there is also the problem that it is located in a floodplain.

The other one; this one is a tough nut as conventional hole boring equipment does not cut it according to the professionals I have talked to.   We are talking ROCK AUGERING down to the water table.  

You also need a DYNAMITE supplier if you get it; to put in underground services and a basement if you want it.  

11  Tax Sale Forum / Property Information / Re: Re: Interesting Risks on Upcoming Trent Hills Tax Sale on: September 25, 2018, 05:41:24 AM

Once the geo-tech work is done and if there are contaminants found, then the real dollars start to roll out for the clean-up.   Might as well take your dollar bills and light them up as you pour them into the hole that I have drilled for you.  


I don't know where you are getting away with only one borebole, more likely five i.e. one for each corner and

one in the center if you want an all clear engineering certification. i.e. $20,000 alone just for the testing.

My first rule of holes is, "Stop digging".  

The only saving grace with these properties is I do not expect them to be redeemed.

This is a risky business.   I think it was you or PFM who said long ago the first rule of tax sales.   " With tax sales you have to remember there is a problem with the property or the owner"

In this county this is the third tax sale in a row with contaminated property on the sale.   LOL

12  Tax Sale Forum / Property Information / Interesting Risks on Upcoming Trent Hills Tax Sale on: September 24, 2018, 03:21:55 PM
Some interesting risks on the upcoming Trent Hills tax sale (more then 1 property)

221 Banta Road (Warkworth) former meth lab.

At the other site make sure you get the oil rights. (hint hint)  What is really risky is this potential risk does not show on title because the electronic ownership record does not go that far back when it was transferred to land

titles.    i.e.  this risk problem happened so long ago the only way to find it was in a pre world war 2 aerial photographs and to search the registry books.    

Proving either of these properties saleable even if there are no problems is expensive.   Standard Phase 1 environmental costs are about $3,000 and Phase II costs are about $4,000 (PER BORE HOLE) including taxes (HST) for both.  

I am not certain if there is a surcharge for former meth labs.  
13  Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures / General Discussion / Re: Municipality delays deed transfer more then a month on: September 22, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
Hello, when municipality intentionally delays deed transfer, is any way to pressure them to speed it up, may be file complain in Municipal Tax Act overlooking agency?
So frasrtrating they sooo slow, lazy assess.


Check if the problem is with the Municipality or their lawyer.  In small municipalities that only do tax sales every several years I have had the same problem but it was caused by their lawyer who takes his or her time.

In that case check with the treasurer.

14  Tax Sale Forum / Questions and Answers / Re: Re: Use common sense to avoid tax sale problem properties. on: September 02, 2018, 02:10:27 PM

You are an astute student.   As this is considered 'hazard land' and can't be built on it should either carry an assessment of $1....or more appropriately fall under Municipal/Conservation ownership.   The map does clearly show it as being in a flood plain....and the rain falls mainly on the plain, in Spain.   Cool


I agree I have a lot to learn.   What is frustrating about this business is you have to have good skills on the sell side as well as the (taxsale) buy side.   After getting beat up by a potential buyer
who wanted over $100,000 in mortgage loans and went ballistic because I wanted a credit check sometimes I wonder what I am doing wrong.     Huh

15  Tax Sale Forum / Questions and Answers / Use common sense to avoid tax sale problem properties. on: August 28, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
One of the risks with tax sales is the risk of buying an environmentally contaminated property.   While knowledge is not perfect
one of the possible warning signs is a minimum bid that seems out of whack with the underlying value (i.e. assessed value).  As an possible example consider the upcoming bid in Owen Sound.  Key Statistics are:

Annual Taxes:  $1,600

Assessed Value:  $97,000 for a vacant building lot

Minimum Bid: $53,000 or equivalent to over 30 years of unpaid taxes at todays rate or probably over 50 years of historical
                     average tax rates.  

Now ask yourself why?

Possiblities:    a) They have a reduced rate for seniors that is paid on sale or title transfer and someone lived a very long time.
                     b) The municipality has had some extraordinary expenses such as remediation of environmental contamination.
                     c)  Other unknown cause

Because of this I am very careful about bidding with this type of situation.

Note zoning on this property does not permit development and it must be kept in its natural state. It is even classified as hazard lands.  
BTW  anyone know what caused this as I thought that municipalities had to have legitimate expenses for a tax sale value?  
I wonder if the municipality maybe wants the property but this is pure speculation.

Just curious.  

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