Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChrisCentral on May 07, 2012, 02:35:19 AM
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I am new to this tax sale world - my wife, 1 yr old and I drove up to Gravenhurst to check out the properties listed... the eye catcher was Peninsula Rd but the cottage is a dump. I talked to the neighbour and took pictures to review with my boss (a structural eng) and a co-worker (a civil eng). According to the neighbour the grading is the issue - the property lies in a catch basin where all the surrounding properties drain (not an easy fix considering it is surrounded by rock) - the building that is standing is a victim of footings that shift with every winter (apparently the interior doors won't open/close and floors are a mess).
So knowing that:
1 - the building is a tear down, and
2 - the grading needs an overhaul
My questions is what is a reasonable value?
I figure, construction of a new build + demo + removal of junk + grading + extras <= value of finished property
I am not looking to own and hold but to build and sell. Any advice for a new comer would be greatly appreciated - is this a relatively small community of active bidders? Both the neighbour and I think this property will attract all sorts considering the location - I want to put in a strong bid but not an over zealous one.
Please help or add advice or comment or any share input... we are excited at the opportunity but I would like to hear from others before getting involved in a tax sale for the first time.
Thanks!!
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ONCE EVERYONE WAKES UP TODAY YOUR GONNA GET AN EARFUL FOR VISITING THE PROPERTY.
FYI...BEST NOT TO GO NEAR THE OTHER ONE !
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Uh Oh... what did I do wrong?? ??? ???
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Gee you did nothing wrong...Clearly you have thought this out completely.
You discussed everything with the neighbour..who of course is not your competition as they clearly wouldn't bid against you as they cant wait to have you as a new neighbour, They wouldnt even think of bidding as that would just double the amount of waterfront grass they would have to cut.
What you forgot to do was tell everyone on here exactly what you are bidding so none of us waste our time bidding against you . Additionally I would recommend putting a sign out front saying TAX SALE..Just like open house signs. You may wish to run the signs all the way from the nearest 400 series highway all the way to the house.
Additionally as a public courtesy , please place adds on Kijiji and EBay to help out other people who may not know about the sale. Please be sure to make eBay ads available to Canada and US so we get full exposure to all of North America
Please be kind enough to post images on all the ads you place, Please perform title search for us all. I personally think it would be a good idea to get a home inspection and post the results . At a minimum please break in and photograph the interior for everyone.
I am not looking to own and hold but to build and sell. Any advice for a new comer would be greatly appreciated - is this a relatively small community of active bidders? Both the neighbour and I think this property will attract all sorts considering the location - I want to put in a strong bid but not an over zealous one.
Of course since we all all friends here we are more then happy to help you out.. There is nothing more frustrating then losing bids A real analysis is hard but I think we can help.. A waterfront on Malibu Beach California is worth say 5 mil for a lot..and that isn't actually on the water as there is a 200 ft public beach ..so this clearly is worth more . I would think a bid of $6,734,787.88 ( always finish with 88 as it is good luck for Asians) would be a strong..but not overly zealous bid . Such a bid would show you are serious and I'm sure beat the competition by a small but safe margin.additionally budget 500 per foot for construction so add $19,949,000.00 for a 39,989 Sq ft cottage. ( any bigger might be obnoxious and would require sprinklers which would ruin the cottage country feel)
Might want to keep a couple mil in reserve for the 12,000 sq ft boathouse and maybe 3 or 4 mil for the
underground hangar
If Budget allows , You can copy my house , I leased it out to these guys for the movie ( start around 35 seconds , I just had the pool done,I'm very proud of it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec2i9sr6vRs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec2i9sr6vRs&feature=related)
I would think the hangar at 3:50 would be nice but I dont think the topography of the site will work and I think we need a bit bigger lot for the taxiway. Neighbours may bitch about the noise also unless you give all the kids rides..will really ruin long weekends as you will be doing touch and go`s all day for the kids. All the thanks you will get is a beer from the neighbour ,( cheap prick might offer to let you use his old canoe), really doesnt help offset the 29K in fuel costs per circuit ( lets not even mention the insurance and maintenance costs )
I hope this helps you out, and good luck with your conquering of the tax sale world
Oh if any of you are thinking of sneaking into my house..this guy is head of my security (..this is a great way to kill 22 minutes of our life) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkhdl3_cat-shit-one-ep-01_shortfilms (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkhdl3_cat-shit-one-ep-01_shortfilms)
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Vintage PFM.
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Wow...
Just to clear the air, it was actually the neighbour who told me it was a tax sale... clearly I already knew but I didn't let that slip, and yes he also intends to bid so does the neighbour on the other side.
In all seriousness is there something wrong with going to the property to check it out? I am doing something out of turn?
I am good with the ridicule ... but some helpful advice would be appreciated if I am offside.
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Chris,
From one neophyte to another, you've broken the golden rule of tax sales-never speak to the owner, neighbour, local RE agent or anyone else that could be a local threat. See below, it's a good read. If you search "talking to the owner" you'll see lots of good information about keeping things on the DL.
Just a personal note to the whales in the room though, the reason there isn't much input from newbies is probably a result of responses like this. It's a little harsh for a guy that obviously just made a rookie mistake. Chris doesn't seem dense like Les was (I miss Les-please come back), and I'm sure he's here to benefit from the knowledge available. Everyone has to be new once, cut us a bit of slack. We can't all come into the game knowing all the rules that have taken you years to learn, and there's no playbook that tells new members to read all previous posts before doing anything. Of course that's just my two cents...
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Quote from: 26.2 on November 29, 2010, 06:47:37 PM
Les. It is one of the golden rules of tax sale junkies. Never never ever ever contact the owner.
Here is an earlier quote in regards to this matter and there are a lot more if you read past forums.
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Pfm1011
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Re: Title and execution searches
? Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 03:46:17 AM ?
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#1 Never, EVER approach the current owner or their immediate neighbours - that could jeapardize things in a number of ways
Almost every sale there is someone on here " I was talking to the neighbour..bla bla bla" I just wish I could hit people with baseball bats thru the internet
Don't talk to local real estate about the property. It's fine to talk to an agent, but don't spill the beans about a property that might go for cheap. They're the first ones that will buy it and flip it.. or tell their friends to buy it. They know the local market.
You might as well ask a Great White shark if the lagoon is safe to swim in.
Also here is a link to a thread on "talking to the owner".
http://taxsaleproperty.org/forum/index.php?topic=1081.0
Holy sh&t. I pretty well forgot about this thread. It does make for a compelling read, doesn't it.
btw, I see a current record of over 500 views in a day - up 500% over last year, but it seems that Frank, PFM and Dave2 have disappeared. Are the big boys still here?
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Yes everyone was new at one point or another. Some have learned from others, and others took it upon themselves to learn the business. Sometimes it is best to sit and read up a bit before throwing things out to the public. This is a public forum.
I have only won 1 tax sale. So I'm also very new. I read a lot on the properties, local area, and researched everything from a far. I even won with out anyone even knowing.
Yes never talk to locals; everyone wants the deal of a lifetime. Especially the neighbors, why not double your lot to increase your value down the road?
Nice try, :(
Take care better luck next time, at least the hard works done :)
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Just a personal note to the whales in the room though, the reason there isn't much input from newbies is probably a result of responses like this. PM
btw, I see a current record of over 500 views in a day - up 500% over last year, but it seems that Frank, PFM and Dave2 have disappeared. Are the big boys still here?
Elvis:
I am still here but I don't expect to have a lot to say. Why?
I have been successful particularly on non tax sales and I have to slim down. FYI in the last couple of years tax sales have been only 10% of my buys and relatively expensive. This situation is also affecting my bids because I am not hungary. This has cost me at least one sale this year so far because like an idiot I got greedy and as a result came second.
The areas that are currently for sale are outside my hunting territory.
I don't compete with idiotic prices. If I can't make money I don't do it.
Given latest posts it looks like I should follow the stock market maxim.
a) Sell in May and go away.
b) Listen to a song from the 1960's " See you in September"
I know what I want and can afford to pay and still make money. When it comes up I will
play the game on my terms or not at all.
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Hey Dave,
Sorry for the confusion, I think the point you're referencing is from the quote I put in there from November 2010, it wasn't mine. Glad to hear things are going well in other areas though, tax sales have definitely become more challenging in the last ten years.
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Chris,
From one neophyte to another, you've broken the golden rule of tax sales-never speak to the owner, neighbour, local RE agent or anyone else that could be a local threat. See below, it's a good read. If you search "talking to the owner" you'll see lots of good information about keeping things on the DL.
Just a personal note to the whales in the room though, the reason there isn't much input from newbies is probably a result of responses like this. It's a little harsh for a guy that obviously just made a rookie mistake. Chris doesn't seem dense like Les was (I miss Les-please come back), and I'm sure he's here to benefit from the knowledge available. Everyone has to be new once, cut us a bit of slack. We can't all come into the game knowing all the rules that have taken you years to learn, and there's no playbook that tells new members to read all previous posts before doing anything. Of course that's just my two cents...
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Quote from: 26.2 on November 29, 2010, 06:47:37 PM
Les. It is one of the golden rules of tax sale junkies. Never never ever ever contact the owner.
Here is an earlier quote in regards to this matter and there are a lot more if you read past forums.
Quote
Pfm1011
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Karma: +62/-6
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Posts: 713
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Re: Title and execution searches
? Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 03:46:17 AM ?
Reply with quoteQuote
#1 Never, EVER approach the current owner or their immediate neighbours - that could jeapardize things in a number of ways
Almost every sale there is someone on here " I was talking to the neighbour..bla bla bla" I just wish I could hit people with baseball bats thru the internet
Don't talk to local real estate about the property. It's fine to talk to an agent, but don't spill the beans about a property that might go for cheap. They're the first ones that will buy it and flip it.. or tell their friends to buy it. They know the local market.
You might as well ask a Great White shark if the lagoon is safe to swim in.
Also here is a link to a thread on "talking to the owner".
http://taxsaleproperty.org/forum/index.php?topic=1081.0
Holy sh&t. I pretty well forgot about this thread. It does make for a compelling read, doesn't it.
btw, I see a current record of over 500 views in a day - up 500% over last year, but it seems that Frank, PFM and Dave2 have disappeared. Are the big boys still here?
I think that it would serve new members to read a bit here before posting. The talking to the neighbour issue is well established here and just the slightest research will disclose this. So, when the issue is raised for the 10th time or more, you can expect the reaction that it gets.
As an aside, when PFM made this point in November of 2010 he had 62+ karma and 6-. It is now 76+ and 23-. 14 more + and 17 more -. While I am sure that PFM doesn't really care what some here think of him (like me and others), the larger issue here is that newbies post without thought or reseach and then lash out at PFM when taken to task.
Like I said, vintage PFM. If others can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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Again just to clear the air 1 more time... the neighbour told me it was a tax sale after he saw me poking around (I'd like to think I looked official but its more then likely he just wanted to talk to someone on a lazy saturday afternoon)... enough of me arguing semantics the point is I should have just said nothing and wandered away.
All points are well taken and this is an error that I won't repeat. And yes I did post without reading the entire history of this forum - I have been watching and reading current posts for only a short while, another newbie mistake. Next time I will read and search the forum and other sources before 'blabbering' out of turn... unless I have had too much wine in the evening and the laziness takes over.
Can I ask what each person's successful/winning bid %'s are? I get the feeling after reading some posts of no luck/steep prices that this may be a hobby with a longer learning/experience process then I first thought. How many years have you people been doing this?
Any clue on how many people are actively 'hunting'? I thought these wonderful gems of sales were relatively unknown; apparently not.
I sure wish I had PFM's money bags that are alluded to above... jk.
Thanks.
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Also here is a link to a thread on "talking to the owner".
http://taxsaleproperty.org/forum/index.php?topic=1081.0
Good read in deed... has baglady been successful?
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sorry Chris but the neighbour will outbid you 10,000.00
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LOL... that's just the way it is... dang neighbours... they both want it too... so very selfish
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Neighbors are the worst from what I hear!
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sorry Chris but the neighbour will outbid you 10,000.00
Neighbours have put in bids at just about every sale I have ever been to. Most times they are naive and actually think they can get the property next door for a few dollars over the minimum. They are the first ones to come over at the close of the bid and welcome you to the neighbourhood. Don't ever tell them you are going to do a quick flip or they will not be willing to give you any assistance with your project (they can be of value in terms of the history of the property, and who to contact locally to get things done, even willing to let you borrow their tractor, or get rid of some of that surplus fill and dump it on their property)...tell them that you plan on making this a family place and that you will be there for a long time, ask them where the nearest school, church and best fishing spots are...they will want you to be a good neighbour, of course they will then curse you a few months later when the sale sign goes up.
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Great advice - thanks Frank... I will hopefully one day be able to put it into practice.
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you basically did all the work for alot of lazies out there... PFM post was accurate
Run with your own information, read the old posts. Pretty much every question you asked was already answered.
Good luck!! youll need it to win that one!
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Sucks for me... I guess all I can say is glad I could help someone out hopefully no one gets screwed. I know it was a stupid mistake(s) - I am a rookie; I need to jack up my my coat-throat'ed-ness and ease back on the helpfulness... like a lamb to slaughter on this one.
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REDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMDED
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REDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMDED
You expected it not to be...and of course they always wait until one hour before the sale, after all of us have spent time and energy just in case....oh well, better than the day before you woulda got the deed, as happened to me last summer. At that point you have put out many more bucks than just before the sale, if you were the top bidder. They have to change this, I say that once the property has been advertised as required, then the Treasurer should be able to excercise his discretion to tell the previous owner that the boat has sailed and he missed it. We need clarification, since when is a power discretionary if you are required to excercise it (by the courts). P.S. the Treasurer in Gravenhurst advised me that many of you doorknobs came in and got the owners name and address, obviously to do an end run, shame on you all.
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Even I'm not foolish enough to try that move...
Donkeys!
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REDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMDED
You expected it not to be...and of course they always wait until one hour before the sale, after all of us have spent time and energy just in case....oh well, better than the day before you woulda got the deed, as happened to me last summer. At that point you have put out many more bucks than just before the sale, if you were the top bidder. They have to change this, I say that once the property has been advertised as required, then the Treasurer should be able to excercise his discretion to tell the previous owner that the boat has sailed and he missed it. We need clarification, since when is a power discretionary if you are required to excercise it (by the courts). P.S. the Treasurer in Gravenhurst advised me that many of you doorknobs came in and got the owners name and address, obviously to do an end run, shame on you all.
I did expect it to be... well im not one of the doorknobs , the amount of idiots messing around in these tax sales has really made it difficult.