Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave2 on March 26, 2011, 11:29:27 PM
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I am wondering if we need to get a little more active on pointing out the true risks with tax sales.
I don't mean in alarmist sense just a real outline of the risks and the need for a proper investigation. Some of the bids lately don't seem to make a lot of sense for tax sales unless you are the neighbour.
Particularly as you get into rural townships there seems to be an expectation that all property is nicely marked with easily determined boundaries and you can do anything you want with the property. Maybe one of us has to write an article for OTS on the need for a proper investigation before you bid. Might even help Jeff get some more title searches.
The successfull ones Jeff will publicize naturally. There is a need for due diligence.
comments?
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1. The lady that purchased two lots (with her kids education funds), thinking they would be great to build houses on...only to find out that they were rear lots with no road frontage...they appeared to have road frontage on a drive-by, but the road was actually a private drive-way into a seniors housing development.
2. The guy who realised after he won that the townhouse that he bid on was actually an end unit that had caught fire, and totally burned out...even a drive-by would have told him that, but he bid sight-unseen.
3. and finally, the guy that bid on and won a house that was leaning...worse than that tower in Italy....it was leaning so bad that it came to rest on the neighbouring house. To boot (no pun intended), there were both crown liens against the old owner, and outstanding lawsuits from the neighbouring property.
Do your homework. 8)
I am wondering if we need to get a little more active on pointing out the true risks with tax sales.
I don't mean in alarmist sense just a real outline of the risks and the need for a proper investigation. Some of the bids lately don't seem to make a lot of sense for tax sales unless you are the neighbour.
Particularly as you get into rural townships there seems to be an expectation that all property is nicely marked with easily determined boundaries and you can do anything you want with the property. Maybe one of us has to write an article for OTS on the need for a proper investigation before you bid. Might even help Jeff get some more title searches.
The successfull ones Jeff will publicize naturally. There is a need for due diligence.
comments?
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let us not forget the Quinte west tire dumps that people actually bought
I cant even begin to list the over bids by multiples or unbuildable lots people have bought
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Funny, but only the most senior members have anything to say on this topic. The senior members are not the problem. The ones who get burned usually get burned once and then disappear - never to be heard from again. I call this Darwinism. I am not sure that they get burned because of ignorance or because they think that they are smarter than everyone else. But burned they do get. And they sure do disappear. This forum has lots of horror stories. In one case, a condemned house was bought, the "winner" had to tear it down and then was stuck with a lot that was too small to build on. He is still trying to dump it.
There is risk in this game. You can do everything properly and still get burned. The tender price should always refelect this risk. I have been second a few times by a large margin. In those cases, the real loser was the high bidder.
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no, you have to do your OWN research and be responsible when playing this game.
This is not for most investors.
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We have written a number of articles on the dangers of tax sales. Topics have included
- How to protect yourself against tax sales that get cancelled
- Why a cheque from a credit union might be a problem
- Including conditions with a tender
- Properties that have a Crown interest registered against them
- Why an execution search is necessary
- Getting a mortgage to buy a tax sale property
- Getting your deposit back if you change your mind
- Viewing a property before you put in a tender or bid
- Various errors on a tender form will cause the tender to be rejected
- Using aerial photographs
- Vacant possession
- Using a treasurers statutory declaration instead of doing a title search
These articles are all shown on the TIPS ON TAX SALES section of OntarioTaxSales.ca (these articles can only be viewed by OTS members). There is also information about various dangers to be aware of in the HOW TO BUY TAX SALE PROPERTIES section (you don't have to be a member to look at this section, it's visible to everyone).
If you have an idea for an article, please let us know. We welcome any ideas that you may have. Some of the articles that we've already written were inspired by comments that we saw on taxsaleproperty.org. Or if you wish to write an article for us, please let us know. We welcome any ideas that will help people make successful investments in tax sale properties, and avoid making bad investments in these properties.
Best regards,
Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca
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Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums. If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.
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Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums. If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.
Agreed. This applies to all posters. I am active here to obtain and share information, not to read advertising.
Thanks Rob.
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Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums. If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.
Understood. From now on I won't post anything on the main forum that is, or makes reference to, anything that isn't available to the general public free of charge. And I do apologize if any of my postings have broken any rules, protocols, or common courtesies.
Best regards,
Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca
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If the post is related to OntarioTaxsales.ca's upcoming tax sales, free or paid resources or paid, new features and/or additional functionality put it in the links and resources section. If products or packages are mentioned it counts as advertising. Once in awhile it's perfectly natural to mention a product and have everyone discuss some aspect of it, but when every post includes a mention of a product, put those posts in the links and resource section.
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>:(--most of the tax sale properties are dogs. OTS recently showed photos.of a property frontage ,what appeared as a house on it but the aerial showed none and worse the property is 100% conservation regulated and this was a 3rd time repeat sale. How about folks that cough out over $150 bones for title search and most listed are redeemed? Sucks!
OTS should post the tax arrear sales legislation--spousal court pending, Lot's must be advertised as single NOT combined ect.
Jeff Oberman(PresidentOntarioTaxSales) can he explain how much he charges to municipalities to advertise and why not warn public about regulated lands,land locked,lien amounts,repeats,polluted,change of zoning, occupied. What OTS charges is in the thousands of dollars for some basic information and photos and worse no directions. How is it that Taxsalesproperty can function with out mega bucks receiving Jeff old man? And Jeff has enough nerve to come on this site and give link to info but you got to be a paid member.
Question: Why do Municipal Government's lawyers handle the registration of title for the owner???? Seems that if it is left alone for the purchaser,if it is delayed and not registered,the actual defaulting owner can pay the tax owing before registration and the city can not claim the extra money added to the final bid price.
I got burned, town clerk was adamant that I provide her with my lawyers name but i give instructions that only he be contacted if only problems arose. Turns out the town's lawyer wanted my lawyer to do the filing and registration. Just few problems--I have to pay the legal costs ect and worse--if any problems with the previous owner starts (SPOUSAL) or belongings missing lawsuits, I'm on the hook for for registration.
What is the score in who pays for registration, in Halton Hills, Napenee and countless others--it was included in the stated tax arrears owing amount. Towns lawyer says-it's my fault for not enquiring and all tax sales--buyer be aware.
Jeff OTS should stop milking the system and give information not to cheat the public. OTS gets paid to advertise and therefore needs by law to inform the public of the product pitfalls he sells :-[
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Why would you get your own lawyer in the purchase of a Tax Sale. If you do not the township lawyer will do everything. There fee is already included in the calculation of the cancellation price. One thing be sure is that you have read and understand the Municipal Act and that the township lawyer does everything he is supposed to do.
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Why would you get your own lawyer in the purchase of a Tax Sale. If you do not the township lawyer will do everything. There fee is already included in the calculation of the cancellation price. One thing be sure is that you have read and understand the Municipal Act and that the township lawyer does everything he is supposed to do.
There was a discussion here last year on this point. Some municipalities are now requiring that the successful bidder retain thir own lawyer for registration. I agree that the answer is in the Municipal Act, but some municipalities are doing this notwithstanding the provisions of the Act.
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I forget the exact quote and I don't feel like looking it up right now but it says basically that the township is responsible for transfering the title and clearing everything off of it exept obviously Crown Interests. For any legal matter you can represent yourself. Anybody in this game should be knowlegeable about the Municipal Act and be able to interpret it. For this reason I believe you should not require a lawyer.
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I forget the exact quote and I don't feel like looking it up right now but it says basically that the township is responsible for transfering the title and clearing everything off of it exept obviously Crown Interests. For any legal matter you can represent yourself. Anybody in this game should be knowlegeable about the Municipal Act and be able to interpret it. For this reason I believe you should not require a lawyer.
Brady:
The reason why we are in this game is for the upside not the downside. If you do your homework, and are successful on the tender like a foot race I don't want to lose it at the finish line.
This may come as a shock but I have offered to a township to have my lawyer process the registration and save them the money. Why am I so willing to spend a few hundred extra dollars?
Because then I get it done fast and don't have to wait for some disinterested lawyer to spend a couple of weeks registering the deed. For a good property My objective is to have the remaining money in the hands of the treasurer perferrably the next morning after the date bids are opened. ;) Then I start to push to get it registered. I have even offered to take the paperwork over to the appropriate lawyer if she will do it while I wait.
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I forget the exact quote and I don't feel like looking it up right now but it says basically that the township is responsible for transfering the title and clearing everything off of it exept obviously Crown Interests.
There are two issues here, who registers a tax deed, and 'clearing everything off...'.
With regard to who registers a tax deed, this is dealt with in both the Municipal Act, 2000 and the Municipal Tax Sale Rules, as follows:
Municipal Act, 2001, section 379,
Conduct of sale
(5) The treasurer, in accordance with the prescribed rules, shall conduct a public sale
and determine whether there is a successful purchaser and,
(a) if there is a successful purchaser, shall prepare and register a tax deed in the name
of the successful purchaser or in such name as the successful purchaser may direct;
or
(b) if there is no successful purchaser, may prepare and register, in the name of the
municipality, a notice of vesting.
Municipal Tax Sales Rules
Registration
23. As soon as possible after a successful purchaser is declared in a sale under the Act, the
treasurer shall prepare and register the necessary documents in accordance with the Act.
With regard to clearing everything off title, here's what the Municipal Act, 2000 says about this:
Section 379
Effect of conveyance
(7) A tax deed, when registered, vests in the person named in it an estate in fee simple in
the land, together with all rights, privileges and appurtenances and free from all estates and
interests, except,
(a) easements and restrictive covenants that run with the land;
(b) any estates and interests of the Crown in right of Canada or in right of Ontario other
than an estate or interest acquired by the Crown in right of Ontario because of an
escheat or forfeiture under the Business Corporations Act or the Corporations Act;
(c) any interest or title acquired by adverse possession by abutting landowners before
the registration of the tax deed.
I hope this is helpful.
Best regards,
Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca
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I want to be very clear that I do not like what OTS & Realtax do and the impact that they have on the marketplace. I have other issues with them as well. I think that I have always been very clear on this. However, one thing that I do appreciate about Realtax is that they attend to the registration of the tax deed so there is never a suggestion that the bidder retain their own lawyer. In addition, they do this fast; my understanding is that deeds are registered the next day after payment so there is less chance for a redemption.
Still, I continue to have issues with these companies ::), but that is another story in another thread.
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. In addition, they do this fast; my understanding is that deeds are registered the next day after payment so there is less chance for a redemption.
this is not the case, They do not do them the next day, It takes several days or a week or more just for the prepared forms to get back for signing and then several days from there to be registered. Bet on two weeks
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Perhaps the members should start querying the municipalities as to the timeline of their registration process for the successful bidder, and, if not within 24 hours, make their unhappiness known. I declined to bid on one offering, a few years ago, when I was told that their lawyer would have to take some time to examine each bid carefully, and he was going to be leaving on holidays a day or two after the bid opening, and so it might take a few weeks, (WHAT?) so I said I'd not bother.
My first tax sale bid was successful and close to home, so I informed the municipality that I would pay up the next day and would they please be prepared to register the deed immediately, and they did so, for which I will always be thankful. In this day & age, I see no reason for the process not to be completed the same day, if the successful bidder has the balance of the funds available immediately after the end of the opening of the tenders, and this should be pushed by the members. As well, I wonder if the successful bidder would have cause for action should they drag their feet long enough to allow the delinquent taxpayer the opportunity to finally locate sufficient funds to pay the taxes up to date.
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Sorry, forgot to finish the thought: the municipality should be able to complete the registration the same day, IF given prior notification that they are expected to be able to do so on tender opening day.
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I never knew that the municipalities where required to do this the same day. If I am missing something please let me know.
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As well, I wonder if the successful bidder would have cause for action should they drag their feet long enough to allow the delinquent taxpayer the opportunity to finally locate sufficient funds to pay the taxes up to date.
There are some delay aspects in the process of tax deed registration that are beyond the control of the local Municipality in parts of the province. In Northern Ontario (not certain of exact boundary, might be French River, but maybe someone more knowledgeable like Frank can clarify) the Municipality must get clearance from the Province before a tax sale deed can be registered (because of possible Mining claim issues.) This can take 2 -6 extra weeks depending on time of year.
Taking a municipality to court requires a really worthwhile property. In this case baring fraud
I think it will be difficult to prove. In the only similar case I was personally involved in, the first place bidder was allowed more then the 14 days to come up with the funds and as the second place bidder I was not pleased to put it mildly. The property was not worthwhile enough to get into a legal court battle over.
Personally I think we should keep quiet and work it on an individual basis. Not all properties have a significant risk of registration (E.g. if the former owner is no longer in existance). and for some of the delay issues I do not disclose publically how I get around the problem.
There are also some cases post tax sale where I can see that I might want to contact the owner and buy his rights and pay the tax sale penalty prior to registration; (Shock of shocks; PFM is getting out his shotgun now and loading both barrels. :o) Admitted if you don't do it right it might be a suicidal situation because if you don't do it right you could buy a property you lose to the winnng bidder.
I have one now where I am going to work on it. (It does not involve a member of this board so you can all relax.)
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As well, I wonder if the successful bidder would have cause for action should they drag their feet long enough to allow the delinquent taxpayer the opportunity to finally locate sufficient funds to pay the taxes up to date.
There are some delay aspects in the process of tax deed registration that are beyond the control of the local Municipality in parts of the province. In Northern Ontario (not certain of exact boundary, might be French River, but maybe someone more knowledgeable like Frank can clarify) the Municipality must get clearance from the Province before a tax sale deed can be registered (because of possible Mining claim issues.) This can take 2 -6 extra weeks depending on time of year.
Taking a municipality to court requires a really worthwhile property. In this case baring fraud
I think it will be difficult to prove. In the only similar case I was personally involved in, the first place bidder was allowed more then the 14 days to come up with the funds and as the second place bidder I was not pleased to put it mildly. The property was not worthwhile enough to get into a legal court battle over.
Personally I think we should keep quiet and work it on an individual basis. Not all properties have a significant risk of registration (E.g. if the former owner is no longer in existance). and for some of the delay issues I do not disclose publically how I get around the problem.
There are also some cases post tax sale where I can see that I might want to contact the owner and buy his rights and pay the tax sale penalty prior to registration; (Shock of shocks; PFM is getting out his shotgun now and loading both barrels. :o) Admitted if you don't do it right it might be a suicidal situation because if you don't do it right you could buy a property you lose to the winnng bidder.
I have one now where I am going to work on it. (It does not involve a member of this board so you can all relax.)
Well Dave, we disagree on this one. In my book this is not fair play. When I lose, I accept it and do not look for an underhanded way to subvert the process. A more likely result of your suggestion is that the owner will end up redeeming and selling to somebody else at an even higher price. Winning tenders is difficult enough without having to deal with that tactic. I like to play hard, but I also like to play fair.
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Perhaps the Municipality should get clearance from the Province 2 -6 weeks before the tax sale is held; why should we have to sit & twiddle appendages?
You are telling us that you have a way to beat the winning bidder, so how do you know the winning bidder is not a member of this board? For that matter, how do we know that, if the deal is big enough, we wouldn't get screwed by you anyway? I agree with Netpred, I like to win fair and to lose fair. If I were to find that I was shafted by someone by what I consider an underhanded move, I would be right onto my lawyer to find out what my chances were of suing everyone involved. Again, if all bidders were to voice their desire for closing within 24 hours, and have the funds right there at the bid opening, what choice would the municipalities have but to comply?
I'm disappointed.
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Netpred/ Ernest Bidder:
Figured I would get a reaction on this one. You are both ignoring one key situation.
I should make a bet on this one but don't like to shoot fish in a barrel.
The answer to both your concerns is simple. How about a case that NO bids were received?
Ergo no winning bidder and thus I can say with 100% certainty that no one on this board is at risk. I would never recommend someone take the risks of trying to supplant a winning bidder, post tax sale because it is too risky. If there is no winner dynamics are very different.
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Dave:
No problem in approaching a municipality if no tenders and property vests in the municipality. However, in fairness, in your post you made reference to losing to the winning bidder.
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Dave:
No problem in approaching a municipality if no tenders and property vests in the municipality. However, in fairness, in your post you made reference to losing to the winning bidder.
Sorry if I confused the board by mixing apples and oranges. If there is no bid there are only two possible parties you can approach to purchase a property you might still have interest in. One is the municipality either to retender or purchase from once they vest and the owner. Given that the municipality often does not hurry to vest property, looking at ownership more closely may make sense but as always it is high risk.
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I just read Dave2's reply (Admitted if you don't do it right it might be a suicidal situation because if you don't do it right you could buy a property you lose to the winning bidder) and I think that, as I have a number of times, he lost track of his own train of thought. As long as someone is not trying to scoop the property out from under the winner, all's fair in love & war. You must admit Dave2, that that sentence was totally confusing, and I re-read it 6 or 7 times.
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I just read Dave2's reply and I think that, as I have a number of times, he lost track of his own train of thought. As long as someone is not trying to scoop the property out from under the winner, all's fair in love & war. You must admit Dave2, that that sentence was totally confusing, and I re-read it 6 or 7 times.
I guess I should confess my sins and move on. The underlying issue is if a property does not sell at at tax sale what can we do to get it post tax sale. Like others I am not pleased that
people want to commercialize the process (which I knew nothing about by the way) as I would prefer to work below the radar. Getting back to the fundamentals.
In my limited experience municipalities are not in a rush to vest or subsequently dispose of property. My first question to Frank or other less confusing people then myself is how long do they have; I have been told both 1 year and 2 years by municipal officials in different townships for vesting. If any one has the information and the appropriate reference I will donate a cold one or two; whatever your legal safe capacity is.
While waiting for the muncipality the other alternative in theory is to approach the owner and purchase it and clear the aoutstanding taxes at the deal closing.(it is difficult but my lawyer knows how to do it because we had a regular property sale) that the owner used the municipality and his tenants to supply financing). My belief is for properties that do not sell at tax sale is this can be potentially a very difficult process.
Why because most properties today that do not sell, have limited value. Municipal tax people in some cases have not been collecting the taxes for years. (In one case I know for 40 years). The owner is no longer alive and we are dealing with a long closed estate. In that case how does one purchase the property.
Another one I have come across is a corporation that the province has disolved.
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Glad you asked Davey
Used to be one year in which the Municipality had to vest, and if it didn't it had to de-register the property and go through the whole process all over again, to put it back up for sale. Now (as of 2006), they have extended the vesting timeline to 2 years:
(15) If a notice of vesting is not registered within two years after a public sale is conducted at which there is no successful purchaser, the tax arrears certificate with respect to the land shall be deemed to be cancelled. 2001, c. 25, s. 379 (15); 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 156 (5).
and they have also given the treasurer the option to conduct the sale over again, within that two year time-line:
380.1 (1) If the treasurer conducts a public sale and there is no successful purchaser, the treasurer may, within two years after the date of the public sale, offer the land for public sale by public auction or public tender, as the treasurer decides, a second time in accordance with the prescribed rules. 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 157.
So, if you look at some of the older posts on the board, you will notice that one year was referred to as the vesting time-line...however, this has been changed as above. Never too old to get an education..... 8)...yet another tall cold one that you owe me.
Also, I have seen properties that had forty years of tax arrears as well. The reasons for not registering and selling them for the back taxes varied, from having handicapped residents, to having handicapped properties....the attitude towards the latter changed with the introduction of brownfields programs, and the attitude towards the former rests with social services.
[
quote author=Dave2 link=topic=1830.msg7565#msg7565 date=1302200204]
[ My first question to Frank or other less confusing people then myself is how long do they have; I have been told both 1 year and 2 years by municipal officials in different townships for vesting. If any one has the information and the appropriate reference I will donate a cold one or two; whatever your legal safe capacity is.
While waiting for the muncipality the other alternative in theory is to approach the owner and purchase it and clear the aoutstanding taxes at the deal closing.(it is difficult but my lawyer knows how to do it because we had a reuglar property sale) that the owner used the municipality and his tenants to supply financing). My belief is for properties that do not sell at tax sale is this can be potentially a very difficult process.
Why because most properties today that do not sell, have limited value. Municipaly tax people in some cases have not been collecting the taxes for years. (In one case I know for 40 years).
[/quote]
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Glad you asked Davey
yet another tall cold one that you owe me.
I assume that will be in your regular "Yard" glass. For the newbies on the board "a yard glass of ale" is from 3 -5 pints and once you start drinking you are not allowed to stop. It does have one advantage if you are stopped on the way home however by the guys you do not want to meet. You can say truthfully: "But officer I only had one glass"
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:'(How many of you know that there is Ontario legislation concerning tax sales that pertain to manciple government? Before you tender-read it. Municipal office must show you the lands profile and reveal the make-up of the minimum bid. They , Must clear all the liens and contracts registered,except interests of Provincial/Feds. Interests? My second advice--the owner can pay off the debt owing upto the last minute before transferred/registered.Some municipal transfer the deed by their own contracted lawyers--watch out--no cost 2U but factored into the min.bid price. Some like Essex/Lakeshore dump it on you to hire a lawyer and reluctant to wipe out registered liens. Make sure if that happens--your lawyer reads the regs.
Regarding Mississauga--only one property is residential--(used as bait) the rest are land locked useless lands--conservation hazardous lands. Notice the high min values. Really no bull--One small sliver parcel is a storm sewer outlet adjacent a major road and barrier blocked--watch out--townships are worse than used carsalesmen :^(
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Its not actually evil. they have to clear this off the books and use the tax sale to do so. Frank can confirm but I believe the city must pay the school board budget etc based on what they should collect IE assessed revenue, not what they actually do collect . As long as they are listed as taxes in arrears , they are part of the potential revenue stream and tax base and affect city budgets despite the fact the money will never come.
Of course if someone is stupid enough to bid on flood plain or conservation land ..caveat emptor ..
. and another idiot bidder is out of the game
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PFM is correct...the municipality must pay the Region/District/County and SchoolBoards their shares up front. They don't really mind since the interest they charge on arrears is way better than what they could get at the bank.
When they go to tax sales, they are collecting all three shares. Interestingly enough they realy don't want any bids, since if there are none, then they get to take the property...at that point they inform the Region/District/County and or school boards of the loss, and those bodies have to take the hit...the municipal share is usually in the low 20%s. Once that is done the Municipality can declare the property surplus and sell it for half of what it was looking for at tax sale, and still be ahead of the game, sinc the other bodies take the biggest hit. 8) It's kind of double jeopardy, once it's dead, you can kill it again without penalty.
Its not actually evil. they have to clear this off the books and use the tax sale to do so. Frank can confirm but I believe the city must pay the school board budget etc based on what they should collect IE assessed revenue, not what they actually do collect . As long as they are listed as taxes in arrears , they are part of the potential revenue stream and tax base and affect city budgets despite the fact the money will never come.
Of course if someone is stupid enough to bid on flood plain or conservation land ..caveat emptor ..
. and another idiot bidder is out of the game
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Interestingly enough they realy don't want any bids, ... Once that is done the Municipality can declare the property surplus and sell it for half of what it was looking for at tax sale
So Frank, what you're saying is we should all get together and form a cartel and then get into bed with all 414 (give or take) muni treasurers so they can post exorbitant minimums (like assessed x 2) that no one will bid on and then we can buy them as surplus for say real minimum plus 20% (to line the treasurers' pockets) -- tax sale nirvana, win-win ;) ;D ::)
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Ah,,, collusion and conspiracy theory...maybe we can write a book. Who was really behind 9/11, where exactly was Obama born, and who really shot J.R. Ewing. Sounds like eutopia. 8)
Interestingly enough they realy don't want any bids, ... Once that is done the Municipality can declare the property surplus and sell it for half of what it was looking for at tax sale
So Frank, what you're saying is we should all get together and form a cartel and then get into bed with all 414 (give or take) muni treasurers so they can post exorbitant minimums (like assessed x 2) that no one will bid on and then we can buy them as surplus for say real minimum plus 20% (to line the treasurers' pockets) -- tax sale nirvana, win-win ;) ;D ::)
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Ah,,, collusion and conspiracy theory...maybe we can write a book. Who was really behind 9/11, where exactly was Obama born, and who really shot J.R. Ewing. Sounds like eutopia. 8)
Interestingly enough they realy don't want any bids, ... Once that is done the Municipality can declare the property surplus and sell it for half of what it was looking for at tax sale
So Frank, what you're saying is we should all get together and form a cartel and then get into bed with all 414 (give or take) muni treasurers so they can post exorbitant minimums (like assessed x 2) that no one will bid on and then we can buy them as surplus for say real minimum plus 20% (to line the treasurers' pockets) -- tax sale nirvana, win-win ;) ;D ::)
Frank:
When you write your new book you will need to be suitably inspired. In addition to your yard glass of beer I owe you this article from the UK on the atire or more correctly the lack of it of your fellow female writers may help inspire you. ;D
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/10/women-writers-nude-padlock
This being a family board I will pass on without comment