Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => General => Topic started by: brassman on October 04, 2006, 09:39:10 PM
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Rhetorical question.If I buy a tax sale property where no building permit is available, what use can I make of it?
I can build a cabin 108 square feet no plumbing no toilet and no permit required. I could sleep in it in the summer. I could add a deck less than 24" off the ground and no larger than 108 square feet as long as it was not connected to or touching the cabin and no building permit required. I could build a second cabin as a sort living room/kitchen and as long as it stands alone no building permit is required. I can build an outhouse[class 1 sewage system] and no permits are required. I would have to be careful to obey setback bylaws but other than that my understanding is that all of this falls outside of the juristiction of the local building inspector.
I see this as an economical way to add value to a tax sale property that is near or on a lake but for whatever reason can not get approval for a cottage. I think that what I am suggesting is perfectly legitimate. Am I missing something?
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That's interesting, didn't know that..any gov't site that describes these possibilities/discusses this topic?
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Do a google search for "ontario building code". You should run accross several sites which state that any building over 108 square feet or 10 square meters requires a permit. A building is described as having a floor a roof and walls or any of these. All building inspecters in ontario use the ontario building code as their authority.Countless so called vacant lots in Ontario have small cabins on them. The code reads that they can not have toilets or plumbing but no other restrictions are listed. I am looking for someone who has been challenged on this.
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In reading some of those sites, it also states you don't need a building permit for the electrical work...doesn't make sense to me that you could do electrical work without a permit but can't do any plumbing. Am I reading this wrong? Seems to me it's easier to have an embarrassing accident with electricity than with water...
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You could build any size property without a foundation. You could build that floating deck. Electrical work and your generator wouldn't need a permit. General pipes wouldn't need a foundation, but once you start digging up the ground that is where the permit is necessary.
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You actually do require an electrical permit from the Electrical Authority of Ontario for any electrical work, (and in cottage country you require an electrical layout an installation from Hydor One to go a pole to your lot), but you can get one separate from a building permit. You can only build under 108' square feet as long as you take into consideration all setbacks (e.g. 15' from side yards, 66' back from water, 36' from municipal road, etc. etc.
Technically, you can probably get away with some of the things you're trying, but I guess you're trying to skirt this issue of an unbuildable lot.
You might want to consider petitioning the town for a variance. It's a long and boring process (and some people get a planner to help - which costs about $1000, and can cost more depending....) BUT...here's my story.
I had a lot the was technically unbuildable because it had less than the required amount of lakefront, according to the new by-laws, etc. So, I researched the lot and realized that it had been subdivided in 1917, and a building permit had been given in the early 1940s, but it was never built on. Since then, nothing had changed, so I decided to, upon the advice of a planner, fight the township's position on the buildability of the lot and apply for a variance through the Committee of Adjustment, as the new by-laws did not apply when the lot was severed, and a permit had been historically given. I started out doing it myself, but quickly got into hot water with them, so I promptly hired a planner. That was the best $1500 I ever spent. I ultimately won and built a beautiful cottage which has a worth in the mid 3 zeros from its lowly beginnings as a cheap unbuildable lot.
You just never know with the right attitude and a little bit of old-fashioned hard work how things can pay off.
You're already there in thinking outside of the box trying to make success out of tax sales, why not go further?
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GAP is quite correct, except for the following:
1. I'm told that you need and should get an ESA inspection on your electrical work even if it is an alternative energy source (from the grid), for example I have an 8X12 cabin (and an outhouse) on a property which I plan to build a cottage on next year, and I have a battery pack with a solar array so I have power (for lights, etc.) when I go there and camp.
2. Some places have now outlawed outhouses, and if you put one up that wasn't there before they can make you take it down (Parry Sound is like that). I didn't ask the question, sometimes it is easier to get a pardon than permission - it is temporary anyways since I will put in a septic system with the new cottage.
3. Unless you have approval (and zoning) for it, you are not supposed to even sleep in your shed, since it is not approved for habitation. If asked you tell them it is for tool storage and you camp out when you are there - they can't bar you from doing that.
4. Most places nowadays have by-laws that prohibit any accessory building being constructed (regardless of size - that only comes into play in terms of whether you need a building permit under the Act), and if one of your neighbours takes exception and calls in by-law enforcement you will get an order to comply - usually you will have one year to do this before they lay charges against you.
I recently saw a place advertised for sale as having both a bunky (8x12, and an outhouse), and in both cases neither had permission to exist. If you advertise that it has these, and then the new owner gets ordered to remove them - you will be in court, best not to say anything about them and let the buyer consider their value on their own.
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4. Most places nowadays have by-laws that prohibit any accessory building being constructed (regardless of size - that only comes into play in terms of whether you need a building permit under the Act), and if one of your neighbours takes exception and calls in by-law enforcement you will get an order to comply - usually you will have one year to do this before they lay charges against you.
Sorry, on Point #4 I meant to also say that the prohibition on accessory buildings is usually in place until you build a permanent residence on the property - after which time it is still subject to rules concerning height, set-backs, maximum lot-coverage, and end use.
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I asked the question because a large number of tax sale lots are let go on purpose by the owner presumably because they could not be sold and were basically useless. If you can find some limited use for them then they may be marketable. When we bought our latest lot, it had a 14x8 cabin with the roof falling in. I think it predated current building codes. We repaired it and added a deck and moved right in. Our next door neighbour is doing the same thing. We also built a 8x12 tool shed. Later when we applied for a building permit for a cottage, the inspector asked a few questions about the cabin and then lost interest. It has an air conditioner hanging out of the window so its use is obvious. We are on a lake that joins up with the trent system, but it is not considered part of the trent. Parks Canada does not have authority over the shoreline. The township does not issue permits for docks. Ontario mnr does not require a permit but limits cribbing to 10 square meters. We built our dock with no permit. No one was interested. So even before we built the cottage, we had a very comfortable place. If we could do that to a "worthless" lot, maybe we could make some money. Im not advicating breaking laws but maybe a little bending.
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I just love hearing stories like that! Kudos for you. Creative thinking, problem solving and extra cash. WOW!
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Bending the rules is probably the most effective way of getting these kinds of things done. There's always the risk of getting caught and having to undo what you've done, but by far and large the most likely way one will get caught is by a nosy neighbor. If your relatively secluded chances are a building inspector has other things to do then drive around looking for infractions.