Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Properties for sale => Topic started by: lonewolfsek on July 28, 2009, 09:00:41 PM
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Anyone have any info?
Is it landlocked?
Swamp?
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Sorry I deleted my response during edit here is a short response
It is not swampy as far as I can tell It gets swampy abit more up the lake, Building is beyond writeoff , Not sure if landlocked and cant be bothered to pull all the deeds but appears it MAY be locked.
Land severely overgrown so essentially pure forest. Will probably be a waste as morons start bidding insane numbers based on absolutely no logic or comparables at all.
Pigeon is one of the cheapest lakes..but it contains water..stoney lake , Lake Muskoka and lake ontario in Oakville also contain water so therefore they must be worth the same amount ;D
Not to mention very high chance of redemption
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Also forgot to mention , Even if it does have deeded access..It still has no frontage on a road so not worth alot as you can never build a house
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It might be worth only the minimum if there's really no road frontage (then you'll have to buy access maybe). Even if it does have road frontage, it's probably no more than 30 ft. Besides, the brother or sister owns the lot or lots next to it. They won't like it when their brother loses his property to a stranger through taxsale. So have fun.
I'll put in a minimum tender. Beat me, you'll lose. ;D
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Even if it does have road frontage, it's probably no more than 30 ft.
It has no rd frontage..its 250 back from the rd and FR124 stops before the adjacent lot ..
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Here's a twist,a town councilor declared conflict in council over the tax sale..Which means he likely will bid , ( which he is fully allowed to do as he has publically declared the conflict)
However if you bid and beat him..guessing you may have a slight problem getting anything approved ;D
Due to his previously declared conflict, Councillor Franzen did not discuss or vote
on the resolution regarding tax sale procedure.
Resolution No. R2009-285
Moved by: Deputy Reeve Pearson
Seconded by: Councillor Clarkson
That the tax sale procedure for properties located at Part Lot 9, Concession 12,
Galway Ward and described by property roll number 1542-020-102-01600; and
Part Lot 19, Concession 17, Part 1 on RP45R-7850, Harvey Ward and described
by property roll number 1542-010-004-01505, be by public tender.
Carried.
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I spoke to the town planners and they confirmed WATER ACCESS ONLY..There goes the value
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In the same area, a 2-acre lot with deeded lake access fronted on a year round road goes for $50,000 asking. I figured the person posted the ad on kijiji is a credible senior member of this forum. I am not sure if it's because the kijiji web response system is not working properly, I replied with no response. So please if you see this post, reply to my email. I am interested in that lot. - Jayz
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Guys:
While I should be going after this one because it is in my backyard my boss has reined me in for the time being. :( (Something about her rights to buy swampland in Florida not being respected) ;D
As a result I haven't done my homework but overall doesn't sound too bad:
a) Historic cabin which you can use as an excuse to build on
b) Terrain I understand is not swampy but tangled bushland with a bit of a ridge at the back.
c) Frontage is respectable for cottage property in Kawarthas (greater then 100 feet)
d) Water access only but I expect there is a marina somewhere where you can park a boat.
e) Town councillor who is likely going to bid.
As a result sounds like it is POTENTIALLY buildable. (Note I haven't check zoning or deed)
On that big assumption I am prepared to bet (a cold one (beer) or a hot one (coffee or (green??) tea) with anyone that it goes for at least $50,000.
In the Kawarthas right now buildable waterfront cottage land is going for $3,000 - $4,000 a lakefront foot or more. Say downgrade it by half because of waterfont access only you still get a decent value.
This one sounds like it certainly has a lot more potential then say any of the trent hills group coming up later in the month.
My observation is a group we can get too negative and miss the exceptions. There is a lot of taxsale garbage yes, but there are a few exceptions. To me this seems at first glance to have some potential and is worth a second much closer look.
To quote from an earlier post down Brantford way some time ago; I think I will need to borrow a couple of 20 year old daughters of forum members or female members from this forum dressed in skimpy summerwear who happen to have car trouble on the road next to the access lot. I as the old daddy will have to go looking for a phone at our supposed relative's cottage by the lake. The girls will take care of Mr. nosy neighbour in the interim.
That would help me determine how much it is worth to bid.
Maybe I should go up to Bobcaygen and go into the bid room 5 minutes before opening and say "Sorry I just redeemed it" I wonder what the reaction would be and how long my life would be when everyone found the truth. ;D
Dave2
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In the Kawarthas right now buildable waterfront cottage land is going for $3,000 - $4,000 a lakefront foot or more. Say downgrade it by half because of waterfont access only you still get a decent value.
Vacant lots in the Kawathas are asking less then 1/2 of that and that is the ask, Sales for the last year or two are substantially lower.
As per the water access, It may be a substantially bigger problem in a tax sale deal as the neighbour(s) will of course bid and when you beat him..he will feel robbed by you as you clearly are a big time city a**hole... He will then attempt to recover all the lost profits by raping you for access across his land.. Or if he is really pissed, not give it to you hoping you go away and sell him the land cheap..( yes the land which he is entitled to as he has stared at it for years)
here are some MLS examples.. MLS?: X1593920 X1510144 092629 all built , no surpises and these are asking..summers coming to an end so should be able to beat them up a fair bit
Bet on $150 to $180 a foot to build plus some site prep..since its water access add 25% MINIMUM and suddenly the land is worth a sh*tlocker less
Not being doom and gloom but lets try to be realistic on it real value..
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Got to admit I always thought buying cottage property in the Kawarthas was simpler.
My family has had cottage property in this region since 1904 and we always thought that the Kawartha's consisted of a dozen big lakes running from Rice lake
to Mitchel lake just before lake Simcoe. In trying to defend myself I found the following.
a) There are actually 250 lakes now classified as Kawartha lakes by some of the realtors plus assorted creeks, rivers, swamps, and streams too numerous to count any lot on which is classified as "waterfront"
b) I finally decided to check on the new Mapping function on MLS.ca and got totally frustrated as to how many properties that seem to be on waterfront in small scale were actually interior lots.
c) I certainly got to agree with PFM on one point there is certainly lots of cheap land out there, and you have to do your homework to see if it is apples to apples which was my underlying point in my post.
d) Without getting into an argument on pricing seeing as I already put my foot in my mouth
On that big assumption I am prepared to bet (a cold one (beer) or a hot one (coffee or (green??) tea) with anyone that it goes for at least $50,000.
The key is of course is someone going to take me up on my bet and put their money on the line. My feet are already in the fire.
I mean its like shooting fish in a barrel.
After all no one ever bids stupidly in a tax sale do they?
Any one know if I can buy insurance like the following to avoid financial ruin from all the readers of this forum?
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/13/1058034875301.html
Dave2
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Just checked out this site a few weeks ago. Was using Ontario Tax Sales for some time to search for the elusive find. I like the post feature here though so will be using more.
Saw the posts on the Galway lot which I had been investigating. It is landlocked with water access only as per Town. Checked out the lot last week (snuck around). Unfortunately it has a severely steep drop to water (it is a high lot, not water level) and is covered in thick brush. Not access friendly at all from the water and suspect building logistics from water side would be something else. How you would get cleared and graded to build if you couldn't work out a deal with a neighbour to get access is beyond me. By hand I guess. Any heavy equipment for grading/leveling of lot, etc. would have to be craned in from a barge and materials yanked up slope or carried by hand up stairs (which would have to be built first, along with large dock). Building costs from water would be huge. Access deal after the fact is only hope of making this a viable build.
Keep up the good work guys.
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Unfortunately it has a severely steep drop to water (it is a high lot, not water level) and is covered in thick brush. Not access friendly at all from the water and suspect building logistics from water side would be something else. How you would get cleared and graded to build if you couldn't work out a deal with a neighbour to get access is beyond me. By hand I guess. Any heavy equipment for grading/leveling of lot, etc. would have to be craned in from a barge and materials yanked up slope or carried by hand up stairs (which would have to be built first, along with large dock). Building costs from water would be huge. Access deal after the fact is only hope of making this a viable build.
Sounds like the ideal place for a solar powered funicular (incline railway). Start out with a barge to get everything over, and a floating dock to position at the bottom of the incline...don't forget that if you have a dock, you need brown pop as well. Call me when it is done...and yes, everything has to be done by hand, and therefore preferrable if you can establish an access across a neighbour's property...even temporary for construction purposes...might be worth a looney or two when you weigh the alternative.
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I guess no one got pictures.? If its steep to the water.. how much of a drop? and doesnt that generally mean a good deep dockage
Frank you are building a cottage , what is your cost per foot estimate presuming that you get temp land access and build 1500 sq?
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I guess no one got pictures.? If its steep to the water.. how much of a drop? and doesnt that generally mean a good deep dockage
Frank you are building a cottage , what is your cost per foot estimate presuming that you get temp land access and build 1500 sq?
My answer is ... it depends.
In my case, I experienced an additional $20k to blast out a 2000 sq ft basement...if you are on a bluff, why not have a full walk-out. Offsetting that is that I now have some nice landscaping boulders, I get my materials at builders rates, and am doing most of the work myself...I contract the shell, then do everything else....soffits, facia, siding, stone work, plumbind, electrical, etc.....the list goes on,.... I know, I'm an accountant, but that just means that I only have to measure once. Bottom line is that my cost is substantially different that what you can expect if you want turn-key.
That said, and remember I'm an accountant...I don't keep personal budgets, whatever it costs is what it costs.
A simple cottage on piers, assuming you can get access and the land is fairly level where you are locating the building, will probably run $100 per foot, no basement, no garage...seasonal unheated dwelling. However, there are all sorts of things to consider, such as local development charges (Hamilton is heading to $26k, and it doesn't matter what size you build, it's the same)...electrical (if you can get it...cost me $12,000). Remember I said I had to blast...well think about it, no backfill material, so I had to have dirt trucked in and it adds up...I have my own backhoe, so again there are offsets, by having your own equipment (knowing how to use it) and doing the work yourself. Is the land forested...if so, do you know how to use a chainsaw, and do you have the time to clear it yourself?
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One more thing.
If you are planning to build in Northern Ontario, remember that things don't get done as quickly. The weather will set you back. Hunting seasons will see the contractor pools depleted. I've even had crews quit working due to black-fly onset.
If you want better prices, get a cell phone with a 705 exchange...905 and 416s get marked up.
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If you want better prices, get a cell phone with a 705 exchange...905 and 416s get marked up.
Tricky.....disgusting how these northern country pr*cks work.
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Apparently this redeemed late yesterday.
Man doesn't pay taxes for 10 years and then redeems at the last minute..why you ask ?
Simple ....some morons call the owner trying to buy the land cheap and "do the owner a favour" ( slang for screwing the owner) and thinking they are real smart by end running the crowd
Since its likely the owner has an IQ above that of a rock he simply pays the taxes and the deal is over. Unless the end running moron pays market value there is no point.
DO NOT CALL THE OWNER...DO NOT TALK TO NEIGHBOURS.
Good job greedy morons..you just made no money for anybody
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I agree with that statement: "DO NOT CALL THE OWNER...DO NOT TALK TO NEIGHBOURS."
Nothing good will come of this.
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When will people learn? This is a BUSINESS venture. Probely some fools who thought they were savy. This has happened to much frequently latley.
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Maybe someone called the owner. But more likely the owner paid up at the absolute last minute.
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No owner is going to allow 6 K in taxes to skyrocket to 13500 on purpose. Additionally no a**hole is going to embarrass the family intentionally and the day the tax notice goes, he is paying, Hes not waiting till the 11th hour on purpose. Does he have the money ?? he has sold 248K of inherited land in the last two years.
I can assure you, a**holes called the owner being idiots. Remember, for every poster on here there is 50 lurkers who actually think they are smarter then everyone else.
Although I missed this opening, I have been to enough and listened to enough people. Every sale someone trys to call the owner.
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Not only the the best sale so far this year has been canceled,and more wasted time and money.You just invited new competition,with cash.Not smart.And never a good idea.
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No owner is going to allow 6 K in taxes to skyrocket to 13500 on purpose. Additionally no a**hole is going to embarrass the family intentionally and the day the tax notice goes, he is paying, Hes not waiting till the 11th hour on purpose. Does he have the money ?? he has sold 248K of inherited land in the last two years.
I can assure you, a**holes called the owner being idiots. Remember, for every poster on here there is 50 lurkers who actually think they are smarter then everyone else.
Although I missed this opening, I have been to enough and listened to enough people. Every sale someone trys to call the owner.
You may be correct about contacting the owner. I'm sure that it happens and based on what you say, it probably happened in this sale also. But I have also seen people wait to the last minute to pay up. In one such case the owner even kept the tax sale notices from his wife.
I think that you are correct about the lurkers. Sometimes I wonder who is really benefiting from this site. I hope that it is not just lurkers and that there is some benefit to the regulars. I know that I have had some private discussions that were useful.
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I was not at this bid which as cancelled at the last minute. I have been advised by someone who was and who compared notes with other bidders that the top bid he heard was $200,000 yes two hundred thousand.
Makes you wonder. Whatever the difference in opinion between myself and PFM on value that has to be full market price or even more if true.
Maybe there is more then one fool out there.
Dave2
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Rumour.
So rumour has it - Dave2, are you the one who offered the owner $150,000 to have it canceled? ;D
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The full market on that piece is 200K give or take a few dollars.. This time of year with the august stupidity you MIGHT get 50 K more ....I dont know about you but I dont do tax sales to pay full market...If I want to pay retail I will simply go to MLS and get a piece I want with a house that doesnt contain animal life
You have no inspection, no warranty , no protection.. There could be a barrel of PCBs on the ground and its your problem.. IE Its total buyer beware. ..high risk..high profit
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Rumour.
So rumour has it - Dave2, are you the one who offered the owner $150,000 to have it canceled? ;D
If I did something like that you could read about my obituary in the next day's edition of the globe. "Wife murders free spending husband". At those prices she could probably convince the jury that it was a justifiable homicide.
;D
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I think the fair market value is a lot less then 200K, but thats just my opinon, if someone was willing to pay 200k for it then thats the FMP. Too much considering the risk/reward ratio, as well as the building cost involved with that property. Watch for this one to show up on MLS for 250K in the next few months.
This sale generated a lot of attention, espically when the local city counciller showed he intended to bid, word travels fast in small towns, my guess is the owner thought the land was junk and was willing to let it go to tax sale until all the buzz got back to him and he thought he could make some good money on it. I will bet anyone here a 6 pack of beer that the property would have fetched more in tax sale process then it will on MLS. This piece of land, if it makes to MLS will just sit there for years with no offers but when its a tax sale then everybody is jumping all over it like its the last piece of land left on the planet.
I always wonder about the lurkers too.
By contacting the owner, you are risking have the tax sale cancelled- 99% of the time that is what happens, I guess some people see it as if I can;t have it then no one else will either.
I know as far a commercial RE is concerned, the best way to raise low interest capital is to defer paying the property tax, the taxpable becomes a de facto low interest loan from the municplaity, companies just make a small payment to defer the case from going to legal and collections. I can;t see that happening at the local RE level though.
In most cases, without knowin the backstory behind these sales it hard to judge but unless the landowner passed away and the estate messed up or the owner is in jail, there is no real good reason not to pay property taxes unless the land is junk.
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Don't click on erectile disfunction by jamesXU.
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Does anyone know what the other lot sold for?
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Recent posts either.Same problem.
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sold for min, only one bidder