Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave2 on December 18, 2012, 09:44:42 AM
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Anyone have experience with a contaminated legal title. If so could they please PM me and I would like to discuss in private. Interesting enough I have never seen or recall a posting on this board or by OTS / Tri Target on this type of problem. If anyone knows of a past posting could they please highlight it.
We got a tax sale property 7 months ago and we still can't determine what we own even though the research has gone back to 1819 (original township survey) and involved records so old they are stored in the archives of Ontario.
As far as I can see there is no way to protect yourself against this type of problem. I mean who would have expected a boundary problem with a road allowance that even the township did not even know about.
I have a top rate lawyer and surveyor working on it and they are telling me they have never seen anything like it in 40 years of law and surveying practice each.
I am not certain if I am dealing with the grinch or Santa? (Or maybe Santa is telling me I am going to get my lump(s) (of coal) ??? this year.
Fundamental probblem apparently results from local deposits of iron that caused the magnetic compasses of the original survey(s) to deviate from the original grid pattern we are all familiar. For the pros property is NOT in land titles although some adjacent ones are.
Maybe I should use it for a "dark sky" site as we are dealing with something not normally found on planet earth. A "black hole" that no one knows who owns it.
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This is too technical, so I will PM you so that we can discuss it back and forth. You used to see these nightmares about 15 years ago when parcels were being transferred to qualified land titles and old unassessed lots would get added to the assessment rolls. Three years later they would end up on the tax sale lists.
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Dave:
Your mistake is that you are looking backwards to see what happend. Forget about that, look forward to see what will happen. Look at the provisions of the Municipal Act to determine what happens going forward. You may need to make an application for an order. Ask for the relief you want. It is unlikely that the Province will oppose - especially since you will be relying on the provisions of the Municipal Act.
Consider this information a freebie. More information will cost you. Since this is a rather unusual situation, the usual fee will not be sufficient. I grow thirsty as I type. ;D
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your bookkeeping needs to be 100%with paper trail proof,organized and sorted perfectly.All they really want Dave is everything you have.just from my experiences.
Cheers.
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Dave:
Consider this information a freebie. More information will cost you. Since this is a rather unusual situation, the usual fee will not be sufficient. I grow thirsty as I type. ;D
They say bad luck comes in threes: In addition to this post I have been notified of two others in recent past.
a) I am being called up for jury duty
b) More ominous I have notified of an HST audit. Notice received yesterday and I have until beginning of January to present all my accounting records for review. >:(
Fortunately I collect HST and have the records to prove it.
That's Dave's wife in the black bikini....lucky dog.
Remember Dave when you go for jury duty that the plaintiff is always guilty until proven innocent...lol. I got called once, spent all day waiting outside the courtroom for my name to be called and was finally dismissed at the end of the day without being called in...bring some good reading material or you will go stir crazy.
HST auditors are your friends...if they find something in your favour they don't tell anybody (even you) about it. Seriously, the only thing that can happen is if you failed to remit the HST that you claim to have collected, it's their money and they want it, if in the end they owe you then you will someday see that money in your hands. If on the other hand you owe them, then not only will you have to fork it over immediately, they will tythe you with a handsome additional charge. 8)
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Dave2, an accolade for the black bikini. Which boat is yours? Better yet, which one is mine? :>))
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Dave
Wherever did you get that picture of my boat? 8)
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Sir, you are seriously mistaken on the ownership of the vessel depicted, as I see there are neither staff nor owner's quarters with the appropriate soft music, no black bikini with occupant thereof (I enlarged the pic MANY, MANY times), and, most importantly, accomodation for some properly chilled wine. As well, I did NOT buy the Max ticket that matches the winning number. It's been a rough weekend, and teasing only makes it all the more regretable.
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Frank, I thought it was your boat that had a multitude of oars and the galley slaves. :>))
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I think the boat as pictured is being manned by Pfm, who, obviously, is too busy with matters in the warmer climes to attend here.
Merry Christmas to all, and all the best for the New Year.
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Frank, I thought it was your boat that had a multitude of oars and the galley slaves. :>))
Yes, that would be one of my other boats. 8)
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I think the boat as pictured is being manned by Pfm, who, obviously, is too busy with matters in the warmer climes to attend here.
Just a caution for successful wealthy Canadian Tax Sale buyers who head south. Contaminated title problems are much more prevalent there. National Post has more then one interesting article.
Note the problem was not protected by title insurance.
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/01/10/curse-of-the-zombie-title-they-bought-the-house-but-its-still-not-theirs/
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/01/10/the-latest-u-s-foreclosure-horror-story-curse-of-the-zombie-title/