Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave2 on September 05, 2011, 01:16:01 PM
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There is an interesting argument raging on private posts that directly affects a lot of higher value bids for a property that contains a building. It is based on the recent Trent Hills tax sale waterfront property on Crowe River.
There seems to be general agreement that the winning bid of $100,000 was too high if you wanted to make a profit after resale. The market value for a fixed up building and property at this area is felt to be around $150,000.
I will focus on the second place bid for illustrative purposes and I had assumed a structure size of around 1,200 sq. ft. which I believe maybe too high. These are my numbers. I have deleted some of the private post to not identify the recipient.
"I am having problems making your numbers work for the Crowe River property. Here are my personal calculations.
Leaving aside zoning and setback issues for a second.
Bid $81,000
Permits: $6,500 (Trent Hills) development Charges
New Roof - $8,000.00 (I am assuming roof deck repairs but
not joists)
Electrical - Allow $6,000
Plumbing - Allow $3,000 for grey water system from
Was there a well or alternatively allow $5,000 for grey water system from Crowe River (toilets and sinks)Septic - Allow $7,500
Interior General Repairs Allow $10,000
Total $46,000
General Contractor / Site Supervisor - $5,000
Total Invested - $130,000 (round numbers)
Turnover costs (HST plus real estate fees) @ 19%
= $24,700
Profit say @ minimum 20% = $26,000
Total Selling price $180,000 which I cannot get for that property in location?
The discussion to date has revealed a number of errors on my part.
a) Development charges are not levied for an existing building.
b) I missed the holding tank so septic may not be needed
c) My sizing maybe too big but that is only determined by measurement.
Even if these are allowed for I still can't make the numbers work.
This issue came back in spades in the last 10 days when I got a new opportunity.
They say history never repeats but it does rhyme and this is the issue I am working on now. I have access to 4 cottages on the Trent Severn Canal system someone wants to sell, the only problem is they have to be moved. Currently I can only use 2
of them.
Not a tax sale but an interesting possible complement if you already have the land; which I do, especially when one lot is on an island. After the inspection on Saturday I had an interesting discussion on the way home with my local lockmaster about shipping them by water through the locks while I had a nice ice cream cone and appreciated the last of summer eye candy.
Gee I wonder if I have to get my hunting rifle out and go looking for land for the other 2 or alternatively go looking for other landowners ;D
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Dave:
I am not party to the private posts that you talk about nor did I bid on the Trent Hills cottage. I do think that the winner did ok if it was an end user. He or she will have a place for a bit under market value in my opinion if (and it's a pretty big if) there are no major hidden issues.
One thing that you have to keep in mind before moving any building is that any structure that is placed on a vacant lot must (I think) comply with the current Building Code. A lot of these old cottages do not. The Building Code was different way back then. Please look into this before buying and transporting an older building.
Do I get another beer for this bit of advice? ;D
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Dave:
Do I get another beer for this bit of advice? ;D
First I have to check your qualifications. With all the beers you are winning /getting from me you soon will be flying high. Do you have your pilots license?
;D
The advice is always appreciated and all we have to do is set a time to collect hopefully before the snow flies?
Actually I was hoping you had a line on some cheap barges and I could mount the cottage on the barge like they do on the west coast. On a ship the building code does not have juristiction.
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Dave:
Getting together sounds good. We have already probably both set out sights on the same property. Hint, our favourite conservation authority will probably never issue a permit for it so it is probably not worth the minimum. But, if you enjoy dealing with you know who (instead of what's her name) go for it. I will do some digging to confirm that the property is sterile before making the information public. But you probably already know this.
Actually believe it or not go for it. YOU DON"T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME> (DRD TAKE NOTE) Late last week unexpectedly got offered a very interesting subdivision closeout sale at better then tax sale property prices plus something else.
What is unusual for me is that the boss even is okay with both. Right now figure I am out of action until end of October at least, maybe end of the year if successful.
As well I couldn't stand in your way in your desire for a good fight. Soft hearted chickens like me don't desire to get the type of high class residential properties you scrappers win. If everything comes to pass will show you and let you decide if I made the right decision.
Between that and figuring if moving cottages makes sense I am busy right now. Interesting call to your insurance agent when you ask them to insure a newly purchased cottage and then explain the condition. If I ever do it, will make a nice picture going through the Peterborough lift locks. ;D