Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => General => Topic started by: dogmacanada on November 24, 2013, 01:03:48 PM
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Do vehicle left behind on a tax sale become my property? I don't think so! But what is the rule, they are abandoned and worth a couple buck a a wrecker?
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I have the same question. We just bought a piece of land (Stone Mills auction) and there is a trailer. What to do?
Also, for all of you experienced folks.....does anyone have experience with buying a large piece of land and splitting it in order to sell half?
I was hoping to meet a couple of you at the auction, but it seemed the experienced ones were not there. Is there something about Stone Mills I am missing?
Dogmacanada if I find out anything, I will let you know.
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I have the same question. We just bought a piece of land (Stone Mills auction) and there is a trailer. What to do?
Also, for all of you experienced folks.....does anyone have experience with buying a large piece of land and splitting it in order to sell half?
I was hoping to meet a couple of you at the auction, but it seemed the experienced ones were not there. Is there something about Stone Mills I am missing? Dogmacanada if I find out anything, I will let you know.
1. Relax, you have usual post win jitters in which you imagine you just bought a lemon. If you did your homework you are fine and it all Depends what you want. Ignoring price issues which I have not checked,while I looked at Stone Mills; I decided to hunt elsewhere because the game I wanted in Stone Mills got redeemed and in case you had not noticed there is a lot of game out there now.
Also unlike close to Toronto the people in Eastern Ontario are civilized and redeemed long in advance. ;D As a result I got my piece of the tax sale action and you got yours.
2. I have also been tied up with big cat issues in which I failed to realize
the Hamilton Tiger Cats of my memory had reinvented themselves as the Hamilton pussy cats and as a result I have some debts with people in western Canada.
3. There are a few issues here so I will answer the abandoned property issue here with a second post. It can be a complicated issue.
4. On your land subdividing question you will find the Stone Mills Muncipal people both friendly and compotent unlike in Toronto as they actually answer their phone. Ask for Roger and he will help you with some of your questions but I would recommend you be considerate of him and set up a time for a conference call. Have your computer with you and call up the lot you won.
5. If you need some details PM me and I will show you how to find your property.
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Do vehicle left behind on a tax sale become my property? I don't think so! But what is the rule, they are abandoned and worth a couple buck a a wrecker?
This is one of those cases that there is no cut and dried answer but a combination of practical common sense and appropriate legal steps
will work in most cases.
Initially we are really discussing taking possession of your property. I was doing that over the weekend with some rural land and the neigbours may have called the police but I am not sure because the police did not confront us. While the land had not been used in 40 years you are never sure what you will find.
We had our paperwork with us and we were prepared to answer any questions. Looks like I will have to pay a visit to my neighour
and say hy and deal with any issues like a squatters rights claim.
Also on the last property I just flipped, my buyer walked his land for the first time two weeks ago and noticed a hidden hunt camp just beyond his boundaries and a deer hunting stand on his.
He contacted his neighbour who had not been up to his property for a few years and found the hunt camp was not his neighbour but from a squatter.
My point is if you occupy a property long vacant you can expect to asked why you are there sooner or later .
Some no tresspasing signs and notice will be posted this week.
Now about your abandoned property issue. First suggestion have a camera and take lots of pictures. You can find property in a world of different shape, ranging from the photo below to a tax sale with a structure that
the beds were even made.
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Thanks for the information Dave, checking out new land is quite the adventure. We went back to take a long look at the land and the trailer. The trailer is clearly old and abandoned It would be ideal if we could make it disappear.
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Any word on the vehicles left behind at a tax sale? If there is no by-law regarding 'mobile homes' in the municipality where the tax sale was purchased,...wouldn't one be safe to assume that the trailer home/mobile home that was situated on the property, now is rightful property of the new owner? Taking this a step further, I am also curious if vehicles such as cars, trucks and/or tractors for instance, would fall into the same category as mobile homes? ...or because they aren't considered to be a domicile like a mobile home..would they still remain property of the owner regardless of any such by-law?
I am kind of caught in the middle with this one.....still hoping someone here has some insight about these abandoned left on the properties sold at tax sales
Thanks, Rich
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If you find any kind of a racing car on the property, please handle with care. Years ago, a friend lost his cottage to a tax or bank sale ('cause he was floating around with no permanent address) and someone effected the removal of two single-seater open-wheel race cars, both of which were historically important. One went to an Ontario wrecking yard, where it was eventually rescued for restoration, the other, much more historically important, and worth some healthy bucks, cannot be found. If any such vehicles are in anyone's possession, I can point them to someone who will assist in getting them to the correct authority, without legal ramifications, and hopefully with some profit attached.
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Some no tresspasing signs and notice will be posted this week.
Which will be completely ignored by the poachers..... Love hunters.....defend their land till the end and completely ignore others property rights
,...wouldn't one be safe to assume that the trailer home/mobile home that was situated on the property, now is rightful property of the new owner? Taking this a step further, I am also curious if vehicles such as cars, trucks and/or tractors for instance, would fall into the same category as mobile homes
It is absolutely NOT your property. The old owner has full legal rights to the trailers tractors etc etc. If they have any real value , try to locate the real owner , then place an advertisement in the paper demanding removal , then seize them under the RSLA ( repair and storage lien act) for unpaid storage.
If they have no value other then scrap. run an small notice in the local paper demanding removal in 30 days, then take photos showing they were crap and then scrap them. Although in most cases the old owners are dead or too embarrassed to show their faces , You have to cover your butt as some of the old owners blame you for stealing the land, they don't blame themselves for not paying taxes or the city for selling...you are the bad guy here
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It is absolutely NOT your property. The old owner has full legal rights to the trailers tractors etc etc. If they have any real value , try to locate the real owner , then place an advertisement in the paper demanding removal , then seize them under the RSLA ( repair and storage lien act) for unpaid storage.
If they have no value other then scrap. run an small notice in the local paper demanding removal in 30 days, then take photos showing they were crap and then scrap them.
Thanks for the information,
I have one more question. Assuming there are vehicles on the property, at which point would possession rights kick in after attempting to contact the owner of the vehicles as well as the potential for not finding them or getting a response. Is there not some point where these vehicles could eventually be considered abandoned?
I guess what I am trying to ask is; Are there any other ways to gain ownership of the said vehicles aside from going through the RSLA process you have mentioned?
Is there really no other recourse?
If you have anymore information on the RSLA, etc., perhaps a link or reference? I would love to continue researching this while on the topic.
Cheers,
Rich
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Look at Part III , It explains the various scenarios
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90r25_e.htm#BK17 (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90r25_e.htm#BK17)
This is the easiest that I know of . If anyone know easier please post
Place the notice in the local classified . If the owner comes in 30 days , let him take his stuff. If you dont hear anything retain it based on the cost of storage ( IE 40 a day or whatever is reasonable) and cost of removal and preparation, IE labour to pull it out of the back 40 or dispose as scrap . you can keep whatever money they give you to cover storage costs
If something has a real value . Then you would post notice for longer period IE 60 days to remove and post in the paper 2 or 3 times . Give the notice to the treasurer and ask to forward to old owner who will likely toss the letter if they are even alive or at the address of record
After 60 days you can transfer the vehicle to you using affidavits Transfer vehicle unplated before you spend a penny fixing the car.
If the owner comes forward , absolutely let him have it all with no storage fees after he signs a waiver in regards to liability and that he acknowledges he is only allowed on the land for the sole purpose of removal of his assets. Include strict date and time restrictions and he must remove ALL assets or none, doesn't get to take the Shelby cobra and leave the PCB filled transformer .
However dont treat him as a piece of sh*t..he is most likely a honest person who either fell on hard times or completely dropped the ball . ( sorry even I have a problem not laughing at that line,) Additionally the person recovering the asset might not be the land owner, just own the asset IE left car in barn for storage
.however since the old owner will likely start to blame you his problems..I would not meet him alone if at all and never forget that the land is unguarded and probably 100 miles from you..Pissed off ex owner can have lots of fun using your land as a garbage dump or wasting your time in small claims court in the town where the land is..not your town.. They can pursue a small claim with absolutely no penalty against them for a frivolous lawsuit and no real cost as lawyers arent required. You will have at least two hearings and a mandatory settlement hearing because you tossed his rusted out 1975 pacer ..
If you search on the net you will find Baliffs who will do it for 195 plus expenses which they say comes out to $400 . As you will have are a possessory lien holder , I see no reason you cant do this yourself
Im not a lawyer , so my free advice is worth every penny you paid
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Much Thanks PFM,
I appreciate your suggestions and insight. I owe you one!
I will post any new information I learn about possible solutions and any well documented scenarios that relate to this topic; Hopefully there is something somewhere that we can use to our advantage when we are dealing with these types of wins.
Cheers,
Rich
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Wait, what?
If you as the winner of the tax sale don't get to keep abandoned cars on the property, does that mean you can't keep other things too?
For example - fridges, stoves, washing machines, dryers, furnaces, furniture? How and where do you draw the distinction?
Many thanks everyone!