Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: robb on September 03, 2006, 05:29:37 AM
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I've been reading the message boards and find it all very usefull. I am a newcomer to Tax Sales and am very interesting in finding out more info.
Is there any seminars or group meetings that are held for people involved in these? I've read several rich dad/poor dad books and agree that property is a great investment. I just want to get a better understanding of what steps one should take to investigate the opportunitees 1st. Step by step.
ie 1.finding the sales, Is local newspapers and the Ontario Gazette the only options??
2. Investigation of properties? Title search - Lawyer?
any help is greatly appreciated.... thanks
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Hey robb,
I've never heard of any one in this forum talking about seminars or meetings, other than the forum it's self which is a very usefull tool. There are other sights as as well such as "Ontario tax sales.ca" that are good sources for Tax sale listings. As far as the" how to" part....
Well, taking the plunge and picking a property that appeals to you and then doing the research on it is probably the best way to learn what you will need to know. You won't likely pick the first property that interests you, you may choose not to go for the first 20 properties you look in to, but every time you look in to one you stand a good chance of learning some thing. The 1st one I bought I paid $7000 for and just sold it for $7500. Needless to say it wasn't a good investment I actually lost money after expenses. The knowledge I gained was invaluable and the risk was small. If you ever have any questions fee free to ask either of me personally or put them out in the forum and see if the folk with far more experience then me can help you out. GOOD LUCK. (I know Frank, Luck has nothing to do with it. ;D)
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Rich
Your right, you lost money on that one, but you learned a valuable life lesson. At least you came away with the shirt still on your back. My recommendation to anyone is to read the postings on this forum, read the articles as well, ask questions, and even if you don't bid (or if you bid and don't win) you will have learned something from the excercise. It may seem futile at first, but if you stay with it you stand a good chance to be a winner. You will always have lots of good stories for your granchildren - something like the size of the fish that got away.
good luck Robb - maybe we'll see you at the next sale, in fact I would suggest that members of this forum stick around when you go to a sale and hold up a smiley face ;D , that way you will get to meet each other - go have a coffee and who knows what might develop 8)
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Frank
The smiley face and coffee thing are a pretty good idea, but we may want to use little yellow stickers with a smiley face on it stuck to our shirt. I could just imagine what would be going through the minds of the Township people as more and more people start showing up with yellow signs in tow?? :o
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Rich D/Frank
Thanks for replying I appreciate it. It would be nice to meet some people for a coffee. That would be weird if people started showing up to auctions with little smiley faces!! Could be quite amusing. Once I get back in the Country/Canada I want to try and attend a sale to see how the process takes place. So just to get a clear understanding.
For sales - Individuals put in a bid and later the township let you know if you won right. There is no way of know what other people have submitted. Do you find the properties sell for less/or more than the estimated price?
For auctions - People bid on the properties just like a regular auction?
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If you bid on a property or ask nicely they will send a list of who placed a bid, for how much and the winning bidder and the amount they bid.
Local newspapers and the Ontario Gazette should have the same properties.
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No big signs, just show up for the sale, then after it is over - hang around in the municipal building lobby or foyer and place that yellow sticky smiley face ;D or a pin-on smiley button you can buy at the dollar store on your lapel.
Everyone who is wearing one will then know you are part of the forum and the ice is broken. Enjoy a coffee, and have a good laugh - so that's what you look like, I imagined you quite differently. I probably attend one in twenty sales, and I'm sure that is the same for other members so don't expect to meet everyone all at once - probably as many as half a dozen at any given sale.
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I was out in Wainfleet on the weekend and wife saw a car coming down the dead end road and thought it might be the owners so we left, but tit could of been someone else looking at the property.
If you are from the forum and you see a Bronze coloured 96 Toyota Corrola wagon, that is me. I stand 6'2" a little over weight and my wife is a red head. Honk you horn and say hi. then again you could be the owner Honking with the shotgun pointed out the window.
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If it gets out that our forum members all wear little yellow smiley faces we'll be giving that guy with the shot gun a nice little target to shoot at....Maybe we should go with camouflage Buttons?? ;)
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Why would anyone take a shot at someone (or a group) that looks like a wal-mart greeter (or a wal-mart greeter convention) - could be a lot of fun.
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Wainfleet, I don't recall seeing that one advertised, there was one in nearby Haldimand County back in August.
Does anyone have info. on the Wainfleet sale?
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From ontariotaxsales.ca
Municipal Act, 2001
SALE OF LAND BY PUBLIC TENDER
THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF WAINFLEET
Take Notice that tenders are invited for the purchase of the land(s) described below and will be received until 3:00 p.m. local time on 27 September 2006, at the Municipal Office, 19M43 Hwy #3, Wainfleet, Ontario L0S 1V0.
The tenders will then be opened in public on the same day at the Municipal Office, 19M43 Hwy #3, Wainfleet.
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Property Number NAWT05-001-RT
Property Description:
Roll No. 27 14 000 005 34800 0000, PIN 64015-0017(LT), Part Lot 23, Concession 1, Township of Wainfleet, Regional Municipality of Niagara (No. 59) Being the Lands in RO597721. File No. 05-01
Minimum Tender Amount $15,083.20
more details...
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Property Number NAWT05-004-RT
Property Description:
Roll No. 27 14 000 010 09300 0000, PIN 64026-0137(LT), Part Lot 6, Concession 6 and Part of the Road Allowance Between Concession 5 & 6, Township of Wainfleet, Regional Municipality of Niagara (No. 59) Being the Lands in RO392132. File No. 05-04
Minimum Tender Amount $9,743.22
more details...
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Tenders must be submitted in the prescribed form and must be accompanied by a deposit in the form of a money order or of a bank draft or cheque certified by a bank or trust corporation payable to the municipality and representing at least 20 per cent of the tender amount.
The municipality makes no representation regarding the title to or any other matters relating to the land to be sold. Responsibility for ascertaining these matters rests with the potential purchasers.
This sale is governed by the Municipal Act, 2001 and the Municipal Tax Sales Rules made under that Act. The successful purchaser will be required to pay the amount tendered plus accumulated taxes and the relevant land transfer tax.
The municipality has no obligation to provide vacant possession to the successful purchaser.
Note: G.S.T. may be payable by successful purchaser.
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Some interesting properties in Frontenac ay?
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Wainfleet... Interesting since I am from Port Colborne. It's very near by. It's my old neck of the woods.
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Hey Robb
10 properties for sale in Port - should be in today's Gazette (sale takes place on Sept 25). Mostly commercial and a few vacant land parcels (even a parking lot) - you can now be the owner of world famous 'Joey's Pizza'. When you are from Port then you know that to be the centre of the earth.
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Frank
How did you know where these properties where and what was on them? Did you go visit the spots or did you use a map to find the location. I tried opening the PC website but it's not opening at the moment? I sort of know what's at each location just from being from the area, curious how you did your research so quickly.
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Simple answer, I grew up in Port.
Long Answer, these sales are listed for four consecutive weeks in a local paper once in the Gazette. Municipalities usually wait until near the end of the process since a number of them usually get redeemed and that cuts their Gazette advertising costs. A friend tipped me off, and I went to the town hall to get a copy of the ad. They are charging $10 per property for the package, so you'd better check them out first.
The ad pretty much says where they are (it gives the municipal addresses), and a brief on what type of property they are (commercial, vacant, etc.).
This was an easy one, when they only give lot and concession info. it becomes much more difficult to locate them.
Have fun in Lids-ville (another name for Port).
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OK, so I checked out the properties in Wainfleet eh. Didn't see any toothless banjo players with shot-guns, but I did find out that:
The 50 acre site is pretty wet, overgrown with trees, and therefore pretty impossible to farm and get the taxes reduced.
The 6 acre site is next to a railway shuttle yard which has a works station and brite lights on all night long. There is industrial in the immediate area, and the property is zoned 'deferred industrial' - in other words once you have an industrial use for it, then come and see us and we'll think about it. If you wanted to build on it you would have to get the zoning cleared up first. Interestingly, the ontariotaxsales.ca web-site says that you can get a building permit, but the Township Planner advises otherwise - current use only allowed, until it has some permanent zoning on it - current use is vacant land, again overgrown and not worth farming to get the taxes down.
Also, not much in the way of service to either site (Phone and Hydro and that is it). >:(
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Thanks Frank.
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Did some more checking for a friend and found Crown liens as well - be very careful.
OK, so I checked out the properties in Wainfleet eh. Didn't see any toothless banjo players with shot-guns, but I did find out that:
The 50 acre site is pretty wet, overgrown with trees, and therefore pretty impossible to farm and get the taxes reduced.
The 6 acre site is next to a railway shuttle yard which has a works station and brite lights on all night long. There is industrial in the immediate area, and the property is zoned 'deferred industrial' - in other words once you have an industrial use for it, then come and see us and we'll think about it. If you wanted to build on it you would have to get the zoning cleared up first. Interestingly, the ontariotaxsales.ca web-site says that you can get a building permit, but the Township Planner advises otherwise - current use only allowed, until it has some permanent zoning on it - current use is vacant land, again overgrown and not worth farming to get the taxes down.
Also, not much in the way of service to either site (Phone and Hydro and that is it). >:(
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Did some more checking for a friend and found Crown liens as well - be very careful.
Hi Frank,
Do you mean both properties have crown liens? Or just one of them?
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Robb, you could email me to ask about some suggestions for getting info re: tax sales and the rich dad stuff..I have a few website and group suggestions.
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RE: Wainfleet Sale - results just in
First property (6 acres) went for $25,050. This is a reasonable price for this property, and I wish the purchaser good luck with getting it re-zoned. I didn't try to mislead anyone with respect to the issue of Crown Liens - when I did the search I saw writs of Execution for $5,000 (interest compounded at 14% on top since 1988 - a significant amount by now), and thought them to be crown. Turns out they were from Ontario Legal Aid (an agency which is almost totally funded by the Province) but maintains its independence and is not Crown.
Different story with the 50 acre site. We thought it might be worth $80,000 or $90,000 on the market and there were bids in that range, however, the winning bid came in at $136,660 - that equates to almost $145,000 when you add GST and land transfer tax --- wow, these people must have really wanted this dream property.
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Thanks Frank for the info on the winning tenders
as well as all the great insight to all us newbies !
cheers
Dave