Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Property Information => Topic started by: Pfm1011 on October 03, 2009, 01:50:43 PM
-
Here we go again with Niagara Falls dumping the Garbage from the Testamentary lots fiasco of the early nineties ( already on Niagara region site)
http://www.niagarafalls.ca/city_hall/departments/finance/tax_sales.asp (http://www.niagarafalls.ca/city_hall/departments/finance/tax_sales.asp)
This is year three of the dumping and there is at least 20 or 30 more pieces to go after this batch
Senior members know the story but for newbies..put away your check books . I will rehash last years post
Huge sale coming up in Niagara, ...However not one buildable piece in the lot.
These are all illegal lots that were created using testamentary devise( loophole in that planning act that was closed in 1990) The courts ruled these were not buildable lots in accordance to the planning act but they are legal severances in regards to title.
It was quite the scam attempt and very interesting read. Excellent lesson on how NOT to succeed ..
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2004/2004canlii21275/2004canlii21275.html
Here are the key points
HISTORY
[3] Although the Ontario Planning Act of 1983 imposed statutory controls on the conveyance of land by conventional methods, it was silent with respect to testamentary devises, which meant that a testator could devise portions of his real property to different beneficiaries without being required to obtain the prior approval of a land severance committee. Montemurro used this oversight in the Planning Act to acquire targeted parcels of land which he would then encumber with a charge payable to himself or to a nominee for the entire purchase price. The land would then be transferred to a terminally ill person for nominal consideration upon the testator executing a will devising the property to nominees or alter egos of Montemurro. The conveyances were executed in checkerboard fashion to ensure that abutting lots were allocated to different owners thus assuring that they remained separate and marketable building lots.
[4] A word about Mr. Montemurros background is necessary. He had been the founder and operating mind of Astra Trust, a trust company operating in the Niagara Region in the early 1980?s. The company was closed by the Ontario Government and Montemurro and others associated with him were found guilty of fraud and sentenced to significant terms of imprisonment. It was after his release from prison that Montemurro turned his mind to the land development scheme that I have previously described. Because of his reputation and his status as an undischarged bankrupt, Montemurro?s activities attracted wide spread publicity and the Province?s Attorney General took steps in the courts to prevent Montemurro from proceeding with his testamentary devise scheme. However, in February 1991, Mr. Justice Gravely of this court held that Montemurros scheme of severance by devise did create title in the various beneficiaries of the devise but that the parcels into which the devised property were divided did not qualify as lots for the purpose of obtaining building permits unless the ?lots? conformed to applicable municipal zoning bylaws. Gravely J. s decision was upheld by the majority in Attorney General for Ontario v. Montemurro, reflex, (1993) 12 O.R. (3d) 1. The dissenting opinion of Findlayson, J.A. would have invalidated the entire scheme as a fraud on the Planning Act.
This "gentleman" tried this on about 15 farms and created hundreds of lots . They started selling off last fall via tax sales and probably will keep popping up for the next couple years.
The city of Niagara fought this and in 2003 won an OMB decision which resulted in all these lands falling under Niagara official Plan 'Special policy area 37"
http://www.niagarafalls.ca/city_hall/departments/planning/pdf/official_plan.pdf ( starts half way down page 2-81 and runs for 6 or 7 pages , all not pretty)
Here is my summary from the last Niagara sale , just about sums it up
"The Montrose Rd. ES, is a dogs breakfast . It has been subject to OMB hearings, lawsuits, official plan amendments, special zoning provisions ( not for the good of the owner ) Regional Flood plain, Significant wet lands, Environmental assessments, restrictive covenants, a "special policy" (No 37) in the Niagara official plan. The town will never connect sewers,storm or water etc..Specifically "the city will not consider requests" ( Polite for F*ck off) The property cannot be built on due to frontage which the town "under no circumstances" will allow to vary. Its all in writing. To build , you have to buy 3 additional parcels off the previous owners family who lost the land..Let me know how that works out as they lost the land plus untold hundreds of thousands in an OMB fight which they got slaughtered on.
And to add insult to Injury, when you win the land the 30 parcels ( who cant build) around are going to try to bust your chops when you try to remove the restrictive covenant as I'm sure they want to recover some of their losses and will see it as a opportunity to do so.
It will cost a minimum of 150 to 200K in engineering just to build an outhouse.. need a hydrological study and environmental assessment for the outhouse. literally "
The more detailed information is that the lots MUST be 200 foot frontage and 2.5 acres. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they be smaller. If you manage to meet the frontage and acreage requirements, then all of the above clauses kick in
In order to build you could buy a few over time and then join them but the tax value exceeds the value of the lots. In addition all of the above problems still exist
If you call the city and ask about zoning , they don't mention the Special policy Area , ( not intentionally, its just you are getting a clerk who simply refers to the zoning map, they might reference bylaw 22-2002 or something like that which is essentially the implementation of Special policy 37)
OK That was last years post,
what is worse this year is the parcels you could pickup in the future to combine lots to meet the minimum 200ft frontage are already gone . So unless you already have the adjacent land..you are screwed If you think you can get the adjacent land in the future pull the deed on the adjacent before you bid to ensure there is a tax cert and it hasn't changed hands in the last 15 years
Additionally last year any valuable ones were redeemed as the players in this fiasco are trying to pick up some coin so they sold the good ones before the sale (for 5k or 6 more then what was owing)
Additionally many of the pieces have "certificates of pending litigation" which have to be removed but I understand that they can be removed with some work and a few k to the lawyers
This is a great deal as the end running scumbags who try to do deals around the tax sale...go wild..the actual owners of the sites..are not the owners and the titles are corrupted by old wills.. You will not get clean titles without the tax sale purge as there is a pile of creative mortgages and executions .
Additionally read the case history and see if you want to do a deal with these people.
The good thing is if you go to Niagara they have a GIS that shows floodplain, woodlots , wetlands etc, use the public / development screen of GIS
OK that's part one.....
-
Part Two Apparently I have too much time on my hands Lets look at the pieces in order , First the Montrose /carl rd section
Now remember lots MUST be 200 foot frontage and 2.5 acres. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they be smaller
here is a map http://www.niagarafalls.ca/city_hall/departments/finance/pdf/tax-sale-overview-nov-2009.pdf (http://www.niagarafalls.ca/city_hall/departments/finance/pdf/tax-sale-overview-nov-2009.pdf)
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19204 0000, Montrose Rd. ES, PIN 64260-0028(R), PT LT 12 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PTS 3 & 4 59R7429; NIAGARA FALLS. File 06-11 21600 minimum
150 x 500 1.75 acres No Build also Regional woodlot
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19222 0000, Montrose Rd., PIN 64260-0119(R), PT LT 11 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 19 59R6480; NIAGARA FALLS. File 07-13 Minimum 38000
175 x 500 2 acres No Build
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19230 0000, Montrose Rd ES, PIN 64260-0040(R), RDAL BTN LT 10 & 11 CON 7; PT LT 11 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 23 59R6480; NIAGARA FALLS. File 07-19 Minimum Tender Amount: $9,898.30
175 x 500 2 acres No Build its a rd allowance ..
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19002 0000, Carl Rd SS, PIN 64260-0017(LT), PT LT 12 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 1 59R6480; S/T DEBTS IN RO574734, if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-01 Minimum Tender Amount: $25,916.22
321 x 510 NO RD FRONTAGE and in the provincially significant wetland or its 200 ft setback land locked NO Build ,
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19006 0000, Carl Rd SS, PT OF PIN 64260-0019(LT), PT LT 11 PT LT 12, CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 42 59R-6480; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-02 Minimum Tender Amount: $78,190.62
45 acres 75 ft frontage, much in wetland and setback, Regional woodlot No build and no you cant put a trailer on it ( cant swim in the creek so whats the point) , cant buy the front pieces to build the frontage as they are too small
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19208 0000, Montrose Rd ES, PT OF PIN 64260-0019(LT), PT LT 12 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 13 59R-6480; NIAGARA FALLS. File. 08-03 Minimum Tender Amount: $32,296.17
175 x 500 2 acres No Built
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19212 0000, Montrose Rd ES, PT OF PIN 64260-0019(LT), PT LT 12 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 15 59R-6480 NIAGARA FALLS. File. 08-04 Minimum Tender Amount: $32,248.55
175 x 500 2 acres no build
These two are out of order of sale but belong in this section due to location
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19254 0000, Montrose Rd, PIN 64260-0051(LT), PT LT 9 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 34 59R6480 S/T DEBTS IN RO574735 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-20 Minimum Tender Amount: $29,061.25 ?
175 x 500 2 acres no build
Roll No. 27 25 130 004 19014 0000, Carl Rd SS, PT OF PIN 64260-0019(LT), PT LT 12 CON 7 WILLOUGHBY PT 6 59R7429; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-14 Minimum Tender Amount: $17,533.16
125 x 500 1.45 acres left over piece, was chopped to allow the adjacent lots to build No build
General summary of them all is no build, no two lots to buy to combine into one and the mins are too high to make any money doing so . By the time you meet the requirements of Policy 37 you will lose your shirt
Ok thats the first section
Stay tuned
-
The next two pieces appear to have potential...don't get the check book out quite yet
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 05322 0000, Morris Rd, PIN 64250-0207(LT), PT LT 6 CON 7 CROWLAND PT 12 59R7428; S/T DEBTS IN RO726771 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-05
Minimum Tender Amount: $32,714.08 -
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 05324 0000, Morris Rd, PIN 64250-0208(LT), PT LT 6 CON 7 CROWLAND AS IN RO587846 EXCEPT PTS 1 ? 12 59R7428, BEING PT 13 59R7428; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-06
Minimum Tender Amount: $33,182.23 -
These two are fun..as they stand the only way to build is to combine them...
before rubbing your hands together and saying.. if I win both of these at dead minimum, 66K , I can combine the two , spend another ten k cleaning up legals and doing reports for the SP37 requirements, and now I have a 100K lot for 76K...oops lets not forget realtors.
This is where the fun begins, get your handy calculator out and go here
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/landuse/guide_p7.htm (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/landuse/guide_p7.htm)
These properties have a problem with minimum distance to the farm to the south, One owner applied years ago and was shot down due to safe distance. I cant be bothered to calculate, but if the horse doesn't get you..the creek might..oh just in case that wasn't headache enough...its a regional woodlot..so add more costs for studies..
If anyone is feeling energetic , do the calculations for the horses and post them here
-
For our next set of great deals
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 10300 0000, Morris Rd ES, PIN 64250-0117(LT), PT LT 6 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 1, 59R7651; S/T DEBTS IN RO614333 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-07
Minimum Tender Amount: $22,835.42 - Roll No. 27 25 140 001 10304 0000, Morris Rd ES, PIN 64250-0119(LT), PT LT 6 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 3, 59R7651; S/T DEBTS RO614333 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-08
Minimum Tender Amount: $21,696.34 -
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 10308 0000, Morris Rd ES, PIN 64250-0121(LT), PT LT 6 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 5 59R7651; S/T DEBTS RO614333 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-09
Minimum Tender Amount: $21,696.91 -
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 10314 0000, Morris Rd ES, PIN 64250-0124(LT), PT LT 6 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 8 59R7651; S/T DEBTS RO614333 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-10
Minimum Tender Amount: $21,696.34 -
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 10318 0000, Morris Rd ES, PIN 64250-0126(LT), PT LT 6 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 10 59R7651; S/T RO614333; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-11
Minimum Tender Amount: $22,553.42 -
These are lovely little pieces that are 125 x 400 1.14 acres...No build. What they all have in common is that they are all seperated by fingers of another piece (64250-0118) that was the original chopped up piece but it redeemed last year..So you cant buy and combine now or in the future.. Im presuming that the adjacent will buy these off the town after the sale fails
-
Makes you wonder why the city can't do something about the zoning issues.. it would only help them in the long run.
-
They cant change the zoning..13 or 14 years fighting a fight..then change the zoning back..also most of this land is still held by the same clowns under various names.. If they change the zoning , the scammers get what they wanted..if they change after a sale..IE let the new owner rezone..the scammers sue them and win huge..to the tune of millions ..
You must remember the principle of this land game..thought it up while in prison after scooping 25 million or so of little old ladies pensions ..Astra trust.. . You move an inch and they will sue
These lots can never be built without the amalgamation of the lots. Its a win win for the city, if nobody buys them, the city can seize them, join them and sell them at a profit in a few years.
This land has to be purchased and combined and unless you already hold the neighbouring lots..not worth it.. IF you buy a few but are checkerboarded..you will be raped by the people that hold the land you need
-
Next on our list of wonderful properties available in Niagara Falls is
Roll No. 27 25 140 001 08404 0000, Ridge Rd NS, PIN 64250-0173(LT), PT LT 1 CON 6 CROWLAND PT 23 59R7401; NIAGARA FALLS. File 08-15 Minimum Tender Amount: $12,319.84
150 x 300 1 acre ..no build . The piece to the west is gone long ago, The piece to the east will go up next year ..when it does just leave it for the man who bought the far east lot last year at tax sale. He will need all three lots to get a permit.... So just walk away and by next year someone will have a large corner building lot for 45 to 50 K
Mls has two pieces that redeemed last year up for 79 K but no bites..so who knows the value as these are the two which have the creek out front and down the center and I think cant be built ( last year post) This realtor has three pieces in the area which cant be built and he is trying to sell them..hoping they can screw someone doesnt put a "subject to building permit" I guess ( this is why people love realtors..80K for 1.25 acres of unbuildable land..)
-
next on our tour of country properties is..
Roll No. 27 25 130 003 19446 0000, Stanley Ave ES, PIN 64259-0063(LT), PT LT 12 CON 4 WILLOUGHBY PT 14
59R8642; S/T SPOUSAL INTEREST IN RO662478, S/T DEBTS IN RO662478 if applicable; NIAGARA FALLS; S/T
EXECUTION 93-02720, IF ENFORCEABLE. File 08-17 Minimum Tender Amount: $53,018.58
This piece is 9.45 acres with 145 ft frontage.. cannot be built . The adjacent piece was sold a few months ago so they will be going for this piece to make the frontage. This land is absolutely useless to any other party. If you bid on this..kiss your money goodbye or get ready to spend 50 to 60 k more to buy the lot beside.
Anyone with title search ability will realize that the adjacent owners can , and will, simply let the land rot for eternity then let you play a game around them..dont try gambling against this guy
.Just walk away and let him have it for the minimum..
I havent done the house or the city lot yet ..if someone wants to jump in here it would be appreciated
-
Had some time today to vist two local properties
4840 Willmot Street - This is an empty lot across from the Niagara Falls Review building. It is in a poor section of town surrounded by 80-100 year old homes. There is a laneway on the east side that may be a problem in terms of setbacks otherwise it seems buildable.
5012 St. Clair - I had to venture into the "hood" to check out the next one. This place could be a slumlords paradise. The building seems solid enough. The roof is shot so I suspect there are some issues on the inside. It is vacant but not for long as the satelite dish on the side looks new. Could have been a crack house but doesn't seem completely trashed. As small garage on the side is falling over and full of crap. There was a poster on the door from the city but as I approached the door to read it a big dog came from next door with an eye for a piece of my rump. I made it back to my car only due to my Ben Johnson speed. If you are interested you should contact the city to see what the order was as it could be a deal breaker.
I will try to post some photos wish me luck as I have never done this!
Farrouk
-
This place could be a slumlords paradise. The building seems solid enough.
I dont understand the huge minimum. She bought in in 05 for 164 for clearly this isnt outstanding taxes alone..Has anyone talked to the city re the minimum ??
could it be a grow-op and old hydro bills?? These numbers dont make sense
-
The dirt bags that run grow ops usually use newer homes for their endeavors.
I have never understood how the city comes up with their minimums. The taxes could be no more the $3000 a year on this dump plus tax sale costs. They are selling the packages for $10 so much would a couple of adds in the paper cost. PFM, what other stuff might be included and could the previous owner contend these high costs. Adding hydro on to the minimum is a sneaky way getting their money as it wouldn't survive as a lien on a tax sale.
Assuming its a disaster inside its probably not worth more than 100K minus any oustanding orders.
-
Thank you for all this information. I was considering bidding here....
Can you tell me what is a ROAD ALLOWANCE? Also, with the current zoning/problems/issues/etc, what could be done with these non-buildable pieces of land? Farming (at a very low scale)?
Thanks again.
A
-
http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Road+allowance&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&oq=
Amazing what comes up on google...
-
The good old GOOGLE trick.... thanks. ;D
-
Thank you for all this information. I was considering bidding here....
Can you tell me what is a ROAD ALLOWANCE? Also, with the current zoning/problems/issues/etc, what could be done with these non-buildable pieces of land? Farming (at a very low scale)?
Thanks again.
A
To farm and get any benefit , IE tax breaks and farm property tax you need to generate 7k in sales on the property..The only crop that will get 7k on 2 acres is pot..Im guessing you may have problems hiding a plantation on montrose or morris rds and doubt they will give you the property tax break . For a farm to be worth starting a tractor for you need 100 acres ( might get 50 as a hobby )
the 45 acres is scrub land and over half forest..the other half is clay and I believe type 3 or 4 soil..so essentially junk
Since this land doesnt generate 7k , it wont get a farm tax rate and therefore your tax will be based on 50 to 75 K assessment and at niagara mill rate around 1500 tax a year..for land you cant build and cant sell..
The only thing that can be done is combine the lots but its not worth it..Read all the crap I wrote..this whole sale is non buildable so essentially ,,move along , nothing to see here..
..
-
PFM, what other stuff might be included ......Assuming its a disaster inside its probably not worth more than 100K minus any oustanding orders.
There is legals added, charges for every phone call and letter, if they cut the grass etc but I still can get my head around it.. As per the 100 K ..might be high as the house probably wont command 180 in mint shape and there will be a stigma being abandoned..if it was a grow op you can take 25 to 35 % off the value and you must declare it to future buyers so mega caveat emptor on this one
-
Thanks again!!! BTW, I wasn't thinking of pot... :)