Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: btu on April 20, 2010, 04:33:54 AM
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Hello.
I previous joined as "tax_newbie" but someone suggested I pick a better name in case I actually stuck around ... as that name might not be too good.....
I am curious.... I notice a LOT of sales for Trent Hills and Tay. Can someone please explain to me why these places have SOOOOOoooo many more sales than most other places. Do the same properties just keep coming up again for sale (because not sold)? or are they getting that many new sales all the time ?
Thanks
- btu
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Like many towns what you are seeing is Trent hills cleaning up a mess. Trent hills used to be several small towns IE Campbellford, Hastings etc. The towns are consolidated and are finally getting around to finding out all the the tax defaults. These towns have also come online with the automated land titles so they can now actually get an idea of what is unpaid etc without wading thru an impossible mess of records.
Also many towns did not do taxsales but now accept this as an acceptable method of collection of taxes. Towns are a business which need money to provide services.
Frank may correct me but I believe a town has to pay the school board and Region based on assessed tax base , not tax actually collected . So not only are they out of the tax revenue, they actually are out of pocket . So even if they don't sell the land they can get them off the books.
"Do the same properties just keep coming up again for sale ?" Generally no, the towns will just take parcels that don't sell and sell them to adjacent owners at whatever they can recover or just keep them. You will see repeats of toxic sites as the towns wont absorb the pieces . The sales will be repeated after they have cut a deal with a developer or the province for remediation .
If you bump into a piece that was previously up for tax sale and didn't sell...run away as its toxic
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Like many towns what you are seeing is Trent hills cleaning up a mess. Trent hills used to be several small towns IE Campbellford, Hastings etc. The towns are consolidated and are finally getting around to finding out all the the tax defaults. These towns have also come online with the automated land titles so they can now actually get an idea of what is unpaid etc without wading thru an impossible mess of records.
Also many towns did not do taxsales but now accept this as an acceptable method of collection of taxes. Towns are a business which need money to provide services.
Frank may correct me but I believe a town has to pay the school board and Region based on assessed tax base , not tax actually collected . So not only are they out of the tax revenue, they actually are out of pocket . So even if they don't sell the land they can get them off the books.
"Do the same properties just keep coming up again for sale ?" Generally no, the towns will just take parcels that don't sell and sell them to adjacent owners at whatever they can recover or just keep them. You will see repeats of toxic sites as the towns wont absorb the pieces . The sales will be repeated after they have cut a deal with a developer or the province for remediation .
If you bump into a piece that was previously up for tax sale and didn't sell...run away as its toxic
Many of the smaller places simply didn't have the level of professional staffing to conduct a tax sale...or in some cases they were very small towns and the Councils didn't want to be chasing people out of their homes. Although the towns had to pay the Region and School Boards (usually about 80% of the total taxes), they were theoretically not out of pocket as they were charging up to 15% per year on the receivables (most Treasurers will not admit that they were living off of borrowed money). With amalgamations happening, they are now able to afford to pay for a higher level of staffing internally, and once the total receivable picture is unveiled, action has to be taken.
As far as toxic properties are concerned, they should not have been taking the interest into revenues, but rather recording an allowance for the eventual write-off since the properties are worthless...they didn't always do this, and in some case I've seen where very large Municipalities didn't either (creating quite a financial nitemare). 8)
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The underlying cause is they had the misfortune to be in the sights of a now bankrupt land development company called White Rock Estates 40 years ago and a large number of Checkerboard lots were created. Last I heard one of the principals was getting a free vacation courtesy of the government.
Most of the lots are garbage fit for mountain goats (take a look at Summer road and you will understand what I am talking about.) and ducks. In the summer there is also a resident population of moose flies that live off of all of the people from Toronto who drive out to take a look.
Couple this with a vigilant conservation authority that Netpred loves and you really have to be careful with what you buy. Unfortunately as well usually you need more then one lot to do something
(It gets worse.)
What people from outside this county don't realize is for a group of country folk these people are awful smart. To convince people to visit they almost always have at least one property to die for on the tender (See #13 on the upcoming tender) (You wouldn't believe the PM's I have on this one) and you get everyone on this board getting dreams of living in Trent Hills. To maximize the tourist potential they wil also arrange the redemption just before bids are due. I think I should vote Janice West who runs the tenders as Tax Sale Marketer of the year. ;D
They even are smarter in that they post a scoreboard of the results with the winning bidder and second. Of course every so often in spite of their efforts a low priced one gets by and as a result everyone one on the board continues to dream about the big one that got away.
Even if you survive the local wildlife and purchance see something that might have (very limited) value there are a bunch of local professionals (I personally qualify as neither) who really know what they are doing. They are gradually assembling larger parcels and as at least two have their own construction companies they can make necessary changes cheap or more importantly have access to cheap fill.
I have lost more then I have won against these guys. (You don't want to know my batting average, to use the baseball analogy I might qualify for T ball) Of course Trent Hills does serve as a great training ground. That's why I also look for tax sales in spots like Moonbeam. It has the additional advantage that I don't have to to worry about other savy bidders like Frank
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(See #13 on the upcoming tender) (You wouldn't believe the PM's I have on this one)
could someone save alot of people some gas and be kind enough to upload pictures ..Lurkers You arent going to lose a deal because you upload pictures, you are just saving others a few hours of driving before it redeems ( if it doesnt redeem you will lose the deal because you will waste everyones time as you bid 31891.59 minimum plus 10k plus $11 to be tricky) (its that $11 that will push you over the mark to victory over the masses) Oh and after you get beat by 27 other bids..make sure you make a scene and demand to look at every bid .. but more likely ..when it redeems ten minutes before ..be sure to scream conspiricy and accuse the treasurer or the mayor of defrauding you.. ;D