Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Announcements => Topic started by: DRD on December 24, 2010, 05:32:31 PM
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Merry christmas to you all and your loved ones!
to those that have helped me out this year,
some do not even know they have.
Thanks again
Doug
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Merry Christmas to you and all the others on here. I have found this to be a very useful tool and have learned a lot from those of you who have been doing this for some time. All the best in the new year!!
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Thought I'd give you guys a sneak preview of the real me...merry christmas.
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Merry Christmas to all of you. I have learned a lot from this site, as well as having been entertained. Although I am not actively looking for tax sale property, if the right property comes up, I will be well prepared thanks to you all.
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Thought I'd give you guys a sneak preview of the real me...merry christmas.
Merry Xmas: Little worried because of attached picture but I glad that you are okay.
One thing related to property for those heading to Florida to scoop up bargain priced property remember one thing. Insurance. Most expensive place in the world as per
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20101226/ARTICLE/12261059/-1/sports?Title=Insurance-rates-weigh-heavily-on-homeowners
attached article. Sometimes I think there is no place like home.
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Not to mention Chinese drywall.
Happy 2011 to all !
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Merry Christmas to all, and my thanks to those who have contributed to the wealth of tax sale knowledge here... and hope that it may lead to $ wealth in the new year!
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:'(
Watch this guy explain the financial mess--if you think Canada is not going the same way-wake-up. Many property owners will be hit with HIGH property taxes. In Mississauga--wopping 8% tax increase 2011
just because you bought a tax sale dirt cheap-you can't use the tax sale final price for a reduction.
Example: property sold for $80K assessed at $650K--too bad--no luck in a reduction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTRxN73Iu5M&feature=player_embedded
and for those guys planning to buy property in the states
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zFi18ioqYk&feature=player_embedded
Good site to get you going is called WRH (what really happened)
Be very carefull in tax sale properties--most are dogs :-*
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Les:
I agree with you in some ways and disagree in others. I will respond to you but I will break it into 3 digestible replys. In general I would prefer to take the lead from the most populous race on this planet; the Chinese. The Chinese symbol for crisis = danger plus opportunity in common thought (I will now get 5 demerit points from the Chinese members of this board who will beat me up for not being exactly linguistically correct).
I am not in total as negative as you but I am approaching this market with caution.
I have stated on more then one occasion some of the similar concerns as you; particularly with respect to the United States. What will happen in Canada will be strongly dependent on how things unfold in the United States but I believe there will be some crucial differences.
Its easy to see the direct effects; but the indirect effects can also be important. For example in mortgage defaults in many US states they are non recourse whereas in Ontario they are full recourse. i.e. Default and the bank can claim your other assets.
Times change and we have to adjust our plans accordingly.
There are two sides of the equation in Tax Sales; the buying side and the selling side. I would argue starting later in 2011 and beyond some interesting buying opportunities will come up. Let us first look at the negative side of the business for 2011; the sell side.
We forget that things don't move as fast as we all think and there are time delay effects. On the sell side things have definitely slowed down. This increases the time
required for a number of reasons; such as improving the property by rezoning etc.
Given the times I believe the quick flip days are significantly reduced so if that is your business plan watchout.
There is also pressure for not complete purchase price payment by buyers for Vendor take back mortgages etc.
The net effect is that cashflow for people who have already purchased property is delayed if not reduced. Tax sales are a cash business. Personally I believe there are a number of normally active players on this board who are on the sidelines; or are being much more picky.
If you are willing to contribute to this board you are admitted to a private club via the private message system. I am new to the business but I would venture that the majority of tax sales in this province are done by members of this board if you factor out idiots and adjoining property owners.
The big buyers are not necessarily the ones who post a lot. To be honest with you I don't think I have identified a fraction of them yet. Other then a few old timers the only one who has an insight on this board goes by the moniker "--- Jeff."
I am next going to sidetrack for a second by reviewing what happened to me this year.
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For me personally 2010 was an interesting year. Looking back over a 3 year period I would summarize them as:
2008 - Get an education by getting beat up and learning the ropes on the buy side.
2009 - Do some serious buying
2010 - Digest and improve what I got in 2009 and getting beat up on the sell side.
On the buy side if one considers purchases this year; the majority of mine were not done by taxsale. Why and how I am not prepared to say?
In hindsight the biggest opportunity I missed was not a property but a moveable structure that I could have converted into a house. If I have one of these again I will be more forceful in future to grab it. As a result I missed a potential 10 fold gain because I was too conservative. >:( I figure this mistake cost me $75,000 - $100,000 in missed opportunity.
On the sell side some disappointments because I had 3 signed deals that failed to close. Need to work on this obviously but from some PM's with other board members I was not the only one.
In general I think the cycle time is longer then I first realized but fortunately I did not get greedy and can wait it out. Not certain if it is because the times we are in or if it is to be expected as part of business cycle.
The good news is that I was generally successful in accomplishing what I wanted in 2010 in improving properties and now in 2011 I have something serious I can sell. We have more work to do in 2011 including deciding which of the crown jewels we keep and sell.
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Les:
Be very carefull in tax sale properties--most are dogs
I believe they always have been and always will be. The key is to find the exceptions.
Probably the best observation on that is a comment made recently by my wife who is a practical tough lady when she made an interesting observation just before Xmas about a taxsale property we bought last year. "Her comment was if we were 10 years younger she would recommend we move to this property and develop it properly."
Surprisingly I am not even certain if it is in the so called top 3 of properties we now have in our possession if I was to rate the purchases. Like many we have if we don't sell them like wine as "Beajoulais Noveau" they get better with age.
Later in 2011 and thereafter I expect there will be more "quality" properties coming into the system. Lots of garbage as always but some interesting buys.
Why:
1. Some of the major players on the sidelines.
2. The problems in the United States which will force US owners to let their Canadian vacation properties cast adrift. (if the choice is between losing your house or your cottagee most will give up the cottage.)
3. Budget crunches which will mean that municipalities will no longer hold off on tax sales.
Thats my two cents I am sure there are other opinions.
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Dave2, I like your last point about municipalities facing tight budgets, and deciding to hold tax sales. Given that, next year may be very busy. As to Americans not paying their taxes on cottages, I think it would take quite a few years before we would see those properties up for tax sale. However, it is your first point that causes me concern... perhaps the major players are siting and waiting because it could get difficult to resell many of these properties profitably?
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Dave2, I like your last point about municipalities facing tight budgets, and deciding to hold tax sales. Given that, next year may be very busy. As to Americans not paying their taxes on cottages, I think it would take quite a few years before we would see those properties up for tax sale. However, it is your first point that causes me concern... perhaps the major players are siting and waiting because it could get difficult to resell many of these properties profitably?
Ronster:
Your last point I think is the least important of the factors. It all depends on Price for the major players. If things get really cheap or real attractive properties crop up they will be back in a flash. Some of these guys have been playing this game for decades. They have deep pockets but they are also careful how much exposure they take up that is my point. I personally am a minor league player compared to some of these guys.
The US market is in real sad shape and most people don't know how bad it is. According to the Wall Street Journal today 1 in 4 US residential mortgages is underwater. ie the mortgage is larger then the property is worth. In some states like Florida it is almost 1 in 2.
The other real problem is that the banks have screwed up the title registry system in the states and it is coming back to haunt them big time.
In cases of stress people will let their recreational properties go. I know as I have already taken advantage of it. The US market started to get under stress in 2008. Add three and a bit years and some these properties may come up on tax sale.
I already know what I have to do which is buy from former US owners and sell to new Chinese owners. All I have to do is find a way how to do it.