Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Property Information => Topic started by: DRD on April 12, 2011, 12:49:02 AM
-
For those that are interested in 5 water st south baymouth, make sure you go see the property and do your homework..... I dont scare easy and I walked away.
-
If anyone goes to the sale I would be interested to hear if it sells, and if so for how much?
-
Now I have to know, what scared you so badly? :o
-
It's a teardown. Old motel, been vacant for 10+ years. Right in the heart of downtown South Baymouth though...
-
The building being a teardown... but when you do you can not rebuild.
The zoning, being hamlet needing locals aproval
The property line going through building and protested on file
Easment
New bylaw for setback
-
Very ugly. Do you know if they received any tenders?
-
For those of you who may not know, it used to be legal to take a condemned building and rebuild it one wall at a time. Got caught on this in the early '70s in Oshawa: building dept jerk said there was no use of me buying the property next door, as the 2-storey condemned building could only be torn down. It was for sale for a song: much less than lot value, actually. Another guy bought it, rebuilt it (without building permit: not needed!) and sold it 7 or 8 years later for a small fortune. So, a teardown might not actually be a teardown, but BE WARNED: once you tear it all down, you have to go through all the building steps all over again, as far as I know. On reflection, he did not sell it for a small fortune, it was pretty healthy!
-
But what about prohibited costs. Especially now when at every decision that they do not like or are unsure of, ask for an enginers stamp of aproval on a new drawing.
-
Aggh! That does sound ugly. But I guess that explains why it's at a tax sale. It's been my experience that an overwhelming majority of tax sale properties are major dogs. I am not sure what the exact ratio is but it seems quite high, probably something on the order of 25 to 1. Of course, I realize that this is a very subjective point of view. I'd be curious to know if other, perhaps more experienced members, see the ratio the same way?
-
Aggh! That does sound ugly. But I guess that explains why it's at a tax sale. It's been my experience that an overwhelming majority of tax sale properties are major dogs. I am not sure what the exact ratio is but it seems quite high, probably something on the order of 25 to 1. Of course, I realize that this is a very subjective point of view. I'd be curious to know if other, perhaps more experienced members, see the ratio the same way?
I don't think that it's quite that high. I would guess about 10 to 1. Of course, I may see a dog, while others (like Dave2) may see beauty.
-
"at every decision that they do not like or are unsure of, ask for an enginers stamp of aproval on a new drawing"
That's the beauty of it: the guy that bought the Oshawa property was "renovating" so did not need drawings; he just went in & replaced old lumber with new, had it inspected to get the condemned classification removed, & laughed all the way to the bank. BTW, it was in the mid-70s, so it would be interesting to know what the rules are today.
-
Under the new rules everything needs a permit, got caught redoing a roof last year... permit required
-
Under the new rules everything needs a permit, got caught redoing a roof last year... permit required
Doug: Rare I MAY disagree with you but devil as always is in the details. A lot depends on what you exactly meant by the word "Redoing". This is reprinted from Municipality of Trent Hills Website: http://www.trenthills.ca/en/services/building_dept.asp
You must obtain a building permit before you do any of the following, but not restricted to:
construct a new building
installation of a swimming pool
renovate, repair or add to a building
demolish or remove all or a portion of a building
change a building's use
install, change or remove partitions and load-bearing walls
make new openings for, or change the size of, doors and windows
build a garage, balcony or deck or enclose an existing deck
build a building over 108 sq.ft. (10 sq.m.)
excavate a basement or construct a foundation
install or modify any life safety or fire suppression system such as fire alarms, sprinkler or standpipe or fixed extinguishing systems.
install or modify heating, plumbing, and air conditioning systems, fireplaces, fireplace inserts and woodstoves
install or renovate plumbing
construct or reconstruct a chimney
to finish a basement or convert a room to a bedroom
You do not require a Building Permit to:
replace existing, same-size doors and windows, subject to distance from property lines
install siding on small residential buildings, subject to distance from property lines
build a building under 108 sq.ft. (10 sq.m.), but must conform to the zoning setbacks
reshingle a roof, provided there is no structural work
install eavestroughs, provided that drainage is contained on your property
damp-proof basements
paint or decorate, including interior finishes, but excluding insulation
reinstall/replace kitchen or bathroom cupboards without plumbing
erect a fence (swimming pools and outside hot tubs do require special permits)
Please Note: Permits are required from the Electrical Safety Authority for any electrical work.
There is some differernce between municipalities but generally I have found this as a good guide. For small buildings make sure of their measurements. In one "Pump House" (You taught me that thanks) the building official did do a measurement check (she left her business card outside).
Interesting enough for those of you that like to live in caves I have been advised that a building permit is not required if you do work underground like in a mine.
Regarding dogs versus nondogs I would be comfortable with a 15:1 ratio but my odds may change depending on an upcoming tricky rezoning hearing which depending how it goes I may end up in the dog house with my boss. Depending how it goes will affect my risk curve going forward.
One of those cases that I knew of and accepted risk going in which helped me get a good buying price. Key is whether I can pull off the desired outcome.
-
Your trent area is a little behind the times, if you remember when you bought that property that your pumphouse is on we were both asking questions of the planing department. which in turn ended up being one person subed out and working from his house. Back to the origional building in question, pretty hard to sneak one by them when it is accross from the ferry entrance/exit and the town may have a population of 400.
-
Back to the origional building in question, pretty hard to sneak one by them when it is accross from the ferry entrance/exit and the town may have a population of 400.
The intent was not to sneak one by them but differentiate between items needed for a building permit or not. I have understand replacement of an existing roof including minor repair of (plywood) sheathing underneath was generally exempt from building permit needs. (did not depend on whether shingles had to be removed or not.) I am intrigued which township gave you hastle if you don't mind me asking because I may have to do a roof repair on my house because original builder had a bum lot of shingles. (you can always send a PM)
Completely reconstructing the roof deck or adding a chimney etc. is obviously another matter.
The rezoning I was referring too was not the waterfront island property on Rice Lake but another pair of rural properties that are side by side. There was a mistake on the original zoning over 30 years ago that I am trying to get corrected particularly as it involves conservation land on part of the properties. It is a tricky process because without it obviously the gains I hope to get will disappear and they are probably the highest risk properties I have bought.
The island waterfront I can build on but I am waiting for something else to occur or not occur before
I make a final decision on exactly what I do with it. So far it has taken over a year of waiting and I guess I have to wait for another six months.
-
Haliburton is where I got schooled on the new rules, from my understanding this is new within the last few years. Got a permit for another property and the inspector was great. I believe it is how he is feeling that day and if he has a complaint to follow up on.
-
Dave2 is generally correct. The legislation that governs the issuance of building permits in Ontario is the Building Code Act. It sets out the broad law. You can download a copy at this link:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_92b23_e.htm
The actual document that sets out the various rules and details pertaining to construction is commonly referred to as the "Building Code". It is actually a regulation made under the Building Code Act and a copy is available here:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_060350_e.htm
These rules apply province-wide irrespective of municipal by-laws. Local municipalities have more of a say in what and where you can build, but not in when a permit is required or in how you can build. These are matters that are consistent province-wide under the authority of the two documents referenced above.
A permit is not required for re-shingling a residential roof anywhere in Ontario.
-
Now I know... seemed easier to do as he asked then fight, have 4 properties in this area and wanted to stay on his good side.
Thanks for the info
Doug
-
Now I know... seemed easier to do as he asked then fight, have 4 properties in this area and wanted to stay on his good side.
Thanks for the info Doug
Doug:
In the bigger picture perspective you might have made the right decision given the number of properties in the township you have. Unfortunately these people have a lot of discretionary power and a lot of the issues are not black and white but open to interpretation.
Interestly enough if you look at old posts you will see that I have generally argued for / followed
your approach whereas Netpred for example I believe I can honestly say has argued for a more "firm" or harderline approach.
Both can be right in certain situations. I just wish I could know in advance when I make a bid.Given the large number of bids today it is an important judgement call in bidding success. Who knows in future I may have to ask for your help in building a doghouse which I may reside in after one of my judgement calls doesn't work and my significant other gets done with me. Just wish I had a quiet mild mannered one like Frank does.
The only advantage is most doghouses are less then 10 square meters which hopefully does not need a permit, but then again there are all sorts of regulations regarding outbuildings.
-
Pm me if you wish, I have found another way to skirt those rules if you want a little bigger dog house. This one thought up by one of my lawyers and has stood up so far. Speaking of this how has your pumphouse worked out.
-
Pm me if you wish, I have found another way to skirt those rules if you want a little bigger dog house. This one thought up by one of my lawyers and has stood up so far. Speaking of this how has your pumphouse worked out.
Pump house and tax sale purchase worked fine. (see photos and Kijijji ad)
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-housing-other-Building-Lot-with-132-of-Frontage-with-Bunkie-and-Dock-W0QQAdIdZ195692387
Now that McGuinty has finally announced the completion of the 407 which will be about 10 minutes by Road from this location and a 5 minute sheltered boat ride, and once I get or don't get the final piece of the puzzle, we will get serious. Then we decide if we want a location within a half hour or
one that is somewhat longer but is large scale classic Georgian Bay complete with big pine trees and my own bald eagle. (see painting from Canadian Art Data Base) Interesting Decision trade off if market decides not to take one from me.
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-housing-other-Waterfront-10-Acre-Georgian-Bay-Private-Island-with-Cottage-W0QQAdIdZ196375578
The big problem in this business is always that when you win something then the real work begins. There is always something from the wind storm on Thursday that caused a chain saw crew to shut down to trying to get council to give you what you want. Depending what happens to me next week I may have to take you up on your doghouse offer.
I can always head to the far north to see what is happening with with some properties up there now that construction of the big gold mine has started. Gee adding 3,000 workers to a town of 4,000 might even affect local property values. Even this guy thought I was crazy, 8) but I have my reasons and sometimes it takes a while before I show why.
http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/Industry-News/mining/Detour-Gold-set-to-shine-north-of-Timmins-0727.aspx
Even my wife surprised me when she said if we were 10 years younger she would suggest we relocate up there to live on the property we bought. I am not certain which one she prefers but that is why we go through the things we do in this crazy business. At $100 an acre a little cheaper then southern Ontario farms even if the locals thought we overpaid (by about $20 an acre). The only headache is a mile by a mile property takes while to walk even if it is on a gravel road. At worst I can always sell it to these guys.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2009/04/c5715.html
-
They both look good, good luck with sales. I will check out the island next time I fly over that area.
-
Netpred:
In a rezoning unfortunately the local council acts as judge and jury. Hopefully we do not encounter the third; the executioner. Unfortunately Not all of us have your skills.
-
Rezoning is really at the discretion of staff, they like you and they recommend to council ..you get it...they don't like you ..they recommend against you and you will be at the OMB for years . There is nothing you can do, noone to be fired etc etc.. remember all government reports start at the last page and then begin work
A real example : I was involved in a commercial development years ago which required a noise study.
The staff asked for a study based on 24 hour average ..they liked me and the project .
the alternate a instantaneous sound based study.
One takes the average noise in the area over 24 hours and then your project noise is added and if you don't increase ambient averages by more then say 5% over the 24 hours you get approved. Under this system you could fire off a nuclear bomb every night and the 24 hour average sound would be a pass.
Under the instantaneous noise study ., the sound from the couriers reverse warning horn exceeds the current ambient noise level by more then 5% , you project fails the study and you don't ever get built
It all comes down to politics and many times, who gets a backhander (which in Ontario is actually a board of directors position after staff / councillor retires from city , but its not a bribe hahahaha)
-
Dave, I am not smart or have any special skills. I have a good lawyer to whom I pay good money for good advice. I am not afraid to pay for good litigation.
The problem is that most people are afraid of the town planner or inspector. I always try the "nice" approach first, but when it fails and the municipality is wrong, time to litigate.
Netpred:
The only difference between you and me is the quality of the properties. Most of the ones I am involved in it is not worthwhile to litigate. Depending on what happens to me I might even have to
consult with you, which I assume a few (good quality) cold ones are sufficient payment.
Your real smarts are your modesty; that way you do not bring attention to yourself. You are like the girl who just won the Miss Universe contest and says "I wish I was more beautiful." The smarts you have are the how and when. I am still learning. Be in touch as I may have to tap into that knowledge.
-
Dave:
You flatter me. Without reason I may add.
You are no doubt confusing me with 8).
-
No smarts needed...just act dumb. People love to be asked for their opinion. Always pretend that you don't know anything (even when you really don't). You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. However, when the fly refuses to enter the honey trap, then you need to read them the riot act. 8)
sorry if this sounds corny, but I really didn't know how to word it, if anyone could help me with this I would greatly appreciate it. lol
Dave:
You flatter me. Without reason I may add.
You are no doubt confusing me with 8).
-
Dave:
You flatter me. Without reason I may add.
You are no doubt confusing me with 8).
The only logical way to settle this one is with a couple of cold ones; Colborne Pub ???
After last night I feel Like an ancient Greek king Pyrrhus of Epirus, who although he defeated the Romans is rumoured to have said after "one more victory and I am ruined; (A pyrrhic victory is so called after him.). Need your ability to critique my strategy, and the local beer. As an alternate here
http://beerblog.genx40.com/archive/2005/february/churchkey
Of course we do not discriminate and 8) (and anyone else) is welcome.
-
For those of you who think that this is a glamorous business that you drive around in big black cars with beautiful women drapped on your arm. The reality is quite different.
From a PM which I think sums the whole situation up better then I ever could.
"Be warned, I will be unshaven, unwashed and quite thirsty"