Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: karriebell on May 16, 2012, 03:41:40 PM
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I have a couple questions regarding property.
I am a "newb" and just won my first tender in Tehkummah Twp. Manitoulin Island. My family is from the Island and I have always dreamed of having land of my own up there.
I just acquired 100 acres of land which I will use for recreational and hunting purposes. I did find half a dozen deer stands but only travelled half the property. I was talking to a surveyor and he was looking at satellite imagery and has found a red shiny rooftop in the northern end of the land that I had no idea of and am pretty darn happy about. :) However I have read in the past don't count on anything until my eyes see it myself as it may be torn down or burnt etc. My questions are...
1. if there is a good cabin and there are locks on the door and personal items inside am I able to break in? I have the tax deed.
2. Do I need to notify police that I am going to break into the cabin?
3. if the owners or hunters come to the cabin saying it is theirs and we are already inside what are my options other than running
4. if there is a cabin or not should I insure the lands/cabin?
5. do I need title insurance?
Finally I would like to thank the regulars for their comments and posts on this site as I have found them very informational. I read read and read before I actually put in this tender and waited about a year til the right property came up on OTS. Without the posts I probably would not have even attempted it. PS I also learned some of us drink too much beer. I am a vodka girl ;) Hope to see some answers to my questions and thanks again!
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Congratulations! I look forward to reading the responses on the pro's on this one...
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I have a couple questions regarding property.
I am a "newb" and just won my first tender in Tehkummah Twp. Manitoulin Island. However I have read in the past don't count on anything until my eyes see it myself as it may be torn down or burnt etc. My questions are...
1. if there is a good cabin and there are locks on the door and personal items inside am I able to break in? I have the tax deed.
2. Do I need to notify police that I am going to break into the cabin?
3. if the owners or hunters come to the cabin saying it is theirs and we are already inside what are my options other than running
4. if there is a cabin or not should I insure the lands/cabin?
5. do I need title insurance?
Without the posts I probably would not have even attempted it. PS I also learned some of us drink too much beer. I am a vodka girl ;) Hope to see some answers to my questions and thanks again!
I am not necesarily a beer guy by choice its just that I have the misfortune to bet against a guy named Netpred. Actually for the rest of the year after spending yesterday afternoon with a dowser I will settle for water as I have a fortune in wells to drill.
Congratulations but one caution. Remember in Northern Ontario tax sales have to be approved by the MNR so make certain all of the title transfer is completed. In my experience this is about a 6 week process so if you won on the recent one the time period is a little shorter then I would expect for this to happen. Assuming clear title
I am not an expert but I have had the fortune to do it twice so I will tell you what I did. In one case an island in the North channel by Thessalon I had some unusual good luck and ended up with the keys to the place.
In the other one the former owners were in jail because they grew some plants they should not grow.
1. Go up mid week and drop into the municipal office and have a friendly chat. You might be surprised what they know about the place. Tell them you are taking possession and you are paying all property taxes for the rest of the year and you want a receipt. Find out the identity of the former owner from the registrer and copy it down. (If someone challenges you in future ask to see identification. If they are not on the register tough luck.
2. I dropped by the local cop shop with copies of the legal paperwork and my tax receipt explained what I was doing and said if they have any complaints call me on my cell. (People do not pay taxes on land they do not own.) Note at this point you are the owner. All others are tresspassers.
3. The island was different so I combined two steps. I took a local contractor out with me to check it out and to start process of estimating a rebuild cost. (we had the keys so breaking in was not a worry, (while checking out local contractors that is how I got the keys (through a cousin of the contractor who was acting as caretaker for the owner).
4. As a woman I would have a big guy of the male sex along for show.
5. Go in with lots of daylight and see what you have. (normally that is first step and next is the contractor / surveyor).
6. You may need a locksmith or take some locks with you. (hunting camp is much different then a vaulable cottage).
7. Final part in the process is if you really got lucky insure it with a local agent. By hiring locals word will get around that you are the owner pretty quickly and more importantly they start looking out for your property.
8. Land titles I don't normally bother with tax sales because you get clear title.
Over to the big wolves on the board. That is what I did. How do you guys do it?
A couple of final notes, emphasize that your family is from the Island. That will get you treated much differently. Suggest you may want to PM people on what I will call personal details. There is a lot of communication that goes on here not in the public posts.
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Firstly, more congratulations, especially since you took a lot of time to read the board, which is where most new people fall short, so I would think you found it a good investment.
Secondly, Vodka & Coke (you always cap the one you love!) makes one smooth drink.
Thirdly, I'd double up on the guy thing, and make them family. From my own experience, make it clear that you know whatever is constructed on the land belongs to you: I didn't pay attention to a nighbour's innocuous comment on a well-built attractive tree house on my recently purchased land, and next time I returned it was laying on his adjacent property, cut up in short pieces. Do as I did not, and take multiple pics to document chattels.
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Thank you very much for all the suggestions. :) The forsight is very valuable to me to move forward. As far as the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines I already had the rights signed when I recieved the deed. They were very quick. My sale date was April 13. The family thing? got that covered too. Turns out my closest neighbor is my Uncles namesake and knows my family history on the Island. The property I just purchased was also owned originally by my family about 150 years ago. Very strange coincidences.
I will be going to the local police and have my 40 or so No Trespassing signs in hand. I might also make a "smile you're on deer cam" sign, not sure though. I will be going friday to the local Municipal office as suggested by Dave2. I always try to use Island businesses and had used a company on the Island for the title search. I think that should take care of the name of the last owner? Right?
ErnestBidder great idea, I will be taking pictures of everything with datestamps. I also downloaded a program that gives exact gps locates of where each picture has been taken with my iphone. "There's an app for that" ;) I contacted the Land Registry office to get the exact dimensions of the lot and created a map with longitude and latitudes to find the other markers. I have found the first one and have the coodinates of it. I will have the google earth map I created of the property with me if the police need a visual. Looks like the surprise building is 200 ft over the property line. Should I have property insurance?
I appreciate the congratulations and advice. Oh and I will have the male species with me however as a backup I will bring my bow ;). Are there any Wolves that could provide more ideas or do I have it pretty much covered. I am a first timer so everything is new to me.
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you can always get a piece of wood paint it white then add a RED dot.... Universal Sign for PRIVATE LAND.
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you can always get a piece of wood paint it white then add a RED dot.... Universal Sign for PRIVATE LAND.
Yes the red dot is a much simpler sign for the hunters to ignore..... the read dot signs are environmentally friendlier then the plastic "no trespassing signs " as Hunters don't pull down the red dot signs like they do the no trespassing signs when they poach on your land ... ;D
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Thank you very much for all the suggestions. :) Turns out my closest neighbor is my Uncles namesake and knows my family history on the Island. The property I just purchased was also owned originally by my family about 150 years ago. Very strange coincidences.
I will be going to the local police and have my 40 or so No Trespassing signs in hand. I might also make a "smile you're on deer cam" sign, not sure though. I will be going friday to the local Municipal office as suggested by Dave2.
I think that should take care of the name of the last owner? Right?
ErnestBidder great idea, I will be taking pictures of everything with datestamps. I also downloaded a program that gives exact gps locates of where each picture has been taken with my iphone. "There's an app for that" ;) Looks like the surprise building is 200 ft over the property line. Should I have property insurance?
I appreciate the congratulations and advice. Oh and I will have the male species with me however as a backup I will bring my bow ;). Are there any Wolves that could provide more ideas or do I have it pretty much covered. I am a first timer so everything is new to me.
Karriebell:
If you do all the things mentioned I would NOT take a weapon with me other then a properly house broken male. Make certain he is under your direction and control and understands that only when you unleash him he does his male thing. You are the owner and you have all the rights and priveleges of it. The party line is simple if you meet anyone. The property has been in your family for 150 years and recently has come into your possession. If you meet Rambo back off but remember on your land he is a trespasser. Time is on your side and you can afford to take the time
to establish control of your property slowly and carefully.
As member of the female sex you have advantages here because if anyone gets confrontational with you they will face the whole weight of society back on them.
If you have a bonus building the first thing I would do is see what you have. Of the two I have got; one I offered to the local fire chief for training of new recruits. (saves demolition costs) The other I have rebuilt because the shell was worth saving.
I would inspect it on the first trip and try to gain entry but not force it yet if it is locked. Take lots of photos and inspect it to see if you can see who built it. Your namesake neighbour would be a good spot to start. At this time of year it is not likely to be occupied if it is a hunting camp.
Note particularly the entranceway and I might have a staple gun with a to whom it may concern letter you can staple to the door.
Assuming positively I would do one of two things; Go home and First get out your vodka bottle and have a drink because your property you bought for land value maybe worth (much?) more. The second is now you have it what do you want to do with it. Sever and sell the building for the right price or keep. The answer to that question will determine your next course of action.
My approach in these is much different then probably most of the board in that I prefer to use the carrot first as I can allways use the stick later. At all costs you want to avoid what happened to the original owner of my property who came up against the descendents of an interesting family out of Lucan near London called the Black Donnelly's.
See website here http://www.donnellys.com/
They burned one of his ships which you can see here even today beached on my tax sale buy. It is on the other side of the north channel from your property. Remember if you are not a deer hunter but say like swimming and fishing you might be able to get an interesting shared use of the cabin and some lease payments as well.