Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Announcements => Topic started by: Dave2 on October 15, 2015, 04:31:08 PM
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For those using Terranet major increase in prices. ALMOST 400% FROM $8.00 to $30.00. >:(
Better get your searches done in October.
I expect price increases from Tri target and OTS.
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For those using Terranet major increase in prices. ALMOST 400% FROM $8.00 to $30.00. >:(
Better get your searches done in October.
I expect price increases from Tri target and OTS.
I am Mountainman.
Unless my friend Dave is making a lark,
I am afraid that he is off the mark,
Two weeks shall pass,
And a search will not cost your a@#,
Mountainman has spoken,
The system will not be broken,
The cost shall not increase four-fold,
Until I am quite old,
The owners are not those who we elect,
And our fine Ms. Wynne will not permit them to wreck,
Nor to multiply that what we call profit,
So as to line their own pocket.
For I am Mountainman.
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I am Mountainman.
Unless my friend Dave is making a lark,
I am afraid that he is off the mark,
Two weeks shall pass,
And a search will not cost your a@#,
The cost shall not increase four-fold,
Until I am quite old,
The owners are not those who we elect,
And our fine Ms. Wynne will not permit them to wreck,
Nor to multiply that what we call profit,
So as to line their own pocket.
For I am Mountainman
twas midnight on the night of Halloween,
and no mountainman was to be seen,
he was hiding in his cave,
to avoid the monsters hired by Dave,
Finally he thought he would get through,
but alas he forgot about Dave one's clone; Dave2,
as the dawn was breaking with the lightening of the sky,
He finally thought he would get by,
but Dave2 worried only about just the facts
and was armed with the ulimate tax sale ax,
the aptly named Premier Wynne Tax,
as the vultures gathered in the November sky,
looking for their meal very close by,
and as Mountainman faced drawing his last breath
he remembered the only sure things in life were (Wynne?) taxes and de---h
with his last wish Mountainman said death was not to be
because it was not a tax, just a fee.
Dave2 said this time you Wynne, I will give you a bye,
and you will not go to your place in the sky
but in future when you hear the midnight bell utter its gong,
next time you will realize I am rarely wrong.
but to celebrate your reprieve,
we will give you a flu shot in honour of your achieve
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I am Mountainman.
Unless my friend Dave is making a lark,
I am afraid that he is off the mark,
Two weeks shall pass,
And a search will not cost your a@#,
The cost shall not increase four-fold,
Until I am quite old,
The owners are not those who we elect,
And our fine Ms. Wynne will not permit them to wreck,
Nor to multiply that what we call profit,
So as to line their own pocket.
For I am Mountainman
twas midnight on the night of Halloween,
and no mountainman was to be seen,
he was hiding in his cave,
to avoid the monsters hired by Dave,
Finally he thought he would get through,
but alas he forgot about Dave one's clone; Dave2,
as the dawn was breaking with the lightening of the sky,
He finally thought he would get by,
but Dave2 worried only about just the facts
and was armed with the ulimate tax sale ax,
the aptly named Premier Wynne Tax,
as the vultures gathered in the November sky,
looking for their meal very close by,
and as Mountainman faced drawing his last breath
he remembered the only sure things in life were (Wynne?) taxes and de---h
with his last wish Mountainman said death was not to be
because it was not a tax, just a fee.
Dave2 said this time you Wynne, I will give you a bye,
and you will not go to your place in the sky
but in future when you hear the midnight bell utter its gong,
next time you will realize I am rarely wrong.
but to celebrate your reprieve,
we will give you a flu shot in honour of your achieve
I am Mountainman
You dare mock me?
Two revolutions and you shall see
You are wrong and I am right
So then on you a blight
Mock me no more
I find this quite the bore
For i am Mountainman
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Mountainman:
In all seriousness I hope you are right and title search price increases get delayed as long as possible. If you haven't noticed there is a lot of property up for tax sale this month (especially close to Toronto) and checking them out will cost even at old rates. I will be happy to treat you to an irish flu shot per year if you have the power to delay them for as long as possible.
Title searches are just the beginning. I have spent close to $1,000 just to PROPERLY search one property earlier this year that I walked away from because of what I found. Unfortunately it is an unavoidable expense and I hope you were not the poor person who found out the hard way last Thursday among the crowd at Wasaga Beach.
I expect someone will walk away from their deposit again like someone else did last year. Revenue Canada folks want their money and no tax sales do not protect you from an expensive $14,000 lesson. That property is turning out to be a gold mine for the local treasurer.
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I honestly did not know what the Irish Flue Shots were until I saw the picture. Haha. :D
Witty Dave2, you can be a good poet.
Mr. Mountainman, here comes your challenger.
Looking forward to a rhyming championship title match between the reigning champion Mountainman and the designated challenger Dave2...
Enthusiastic Thumbs Up!! ;D
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I honestly did not know what the Irish Flue Shots were until I saw the picture. Haha. :D
Witty Dave2, you can be a good poet.
Mr. Mountainman, here comes your challenger.
Looking forward to a rhyming championship title match between the reigning champion Mountainman and the designated challenger Dave2...
Enthusiastic Thumbs Up!! ;D
I am Mountainman
You!
Too?
Stop it
Or you'll be in $^it.
There is no increase
I want this to cease.
Tomorrow...
Dave will eat crow.
Offend me no more
My reputation shall grow.
This is no joke
So please don't make me choke.
Soon you shall see
Then never doubt me!
Yes I am angry
So just let me be.
For I am Mountainman.
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Looking forward to a rhyming championship title match between the reigning champion Mountainman and the designated challenger Dave2...
Enthusiastic Thumbs Up!! ;D
Matt:
Sorry but Mountainman can reign supreme as king of the mountain on poetry. No time.
I have other things to do as you might figure out on based on the next post.
I will not find out if I have egg on my face on price increase timing
until end of the week as I have this week covered.
For rest of month I feel like a lone arctic wolf as the annual caribou migration passes through my hunting territory.
Actually I can afford a lot of Irish flu shots for mountainman if he is right and I am wrong on my savings and he better have a designated driver. ;)
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I honestly did not know what the Irish Flue Shots were until I saw the picture. Haha. :D
Matt:
I hate to tell you but Mountainman will not get his Irish Flue shot.
To add insult to injury now they now have added an HST charge
and I guess I pay another (almost) $4.00 extra that I was not counting on. >:(
So 400% price increase it is. This is going to get to be an expensive business. :'(
I guess I had better think of my last wish now as the soon to be former Dave2 will obviously be hung drawn and quartered by the rest of the board when they get wind of this.
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Dave, I have noticed today the price increase by OTS for a title search to about $150 for non-members.
Well, everything goes up, so why not the government service fees. :(
Here comes the real matter.
You are going to see more tax sale mistakes as more people will take huge chances without going through proper title searches..
That also means, as you have already mentioned, there will be more gold mines for municipalities.
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I honestly did not know what the Irish Flue Shots were until I saw the picture. Haha. :D
Matt:
I hate to tell you but Mountainman will not get his Irish Flue shot.
To add insult to injury now they now have added an HST charge
and I guess I pay another (almost) $4.00 extra that I was not counting on. >:(
So 400% price increase it is. This is going to get to be an expensive business. :'(
I guess I had better think of my last wish now as the soon to be former Dave2 will obviously be hung drawn and quartered by the rest of the board when they get wind of this.
I am Mountainman
Think what you wish
I am no cute dish
nor for a search is it more
the cost is as before
for the truth ask a man of the law
but remember to grease his paw
the lawyer will know
the answer is no
Her Majesty charges no more
but enough of this bore
play in your sand
and make the odd thousand
but let me be clear
to Dave my dear
8 digits or more I will amass
so again I kicked your big &^$
For I am Mountainman
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Price on Teranet express is as it was before. Price at LRO has increased. It was always $28 for remote viewing at Teranet express.
I suspect Mountainman's insistence that there is no fee increase is based on the price of Teranet express only. Most lawyers weren't wasting time going to the LRO to search, so the increase shouldn't really affect the price if you are getting a search done through a lawyer. If you were a DIYer and were driving to the LRO, the price went up.
I might be the only one here who thinks this is a good thing. I always do remote searches anyway and am pretty selective about which properties I do due diligence. So the price for me hasn't changed. However, the increased price might make others a bit more selective about which properties they look into which might mean there are more deals to be had.
Frankly, I'd like to see the prices go up to $150/search.
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Price on Teranet express is as it was before. Price at LRO has increased. It was always $28 for remote viewing at Teranet express.
I suspect Mountainman's insistence that there is no fee increase is based on the price of Teranet express only. Most lawyers weren't wasting time going to the LRO to search, so the increase shouldn't really affect the price if you are getting a search done through a lawyer. If you were a DIYer and were driving to the LRO, the price went up.
I might be the only one here who thinks this is a good thing. I always do remote searches anyway and am pretty selective about which properties I do due diligence. So the price for me hasn't changed. However, the increased price might make others a bit more selective about which properties they look into which might mean there are more deals to be had.
Frankly, I'd like to see the prices go up to $150/search.
I am Mountainman
my friend jt is a rarity
to this board he brings clarity
the fee is as before
Her Majesty charges not a penny more
For each Her Highness receives in dollars eight
the rest to the conglomerate who rate
So now it is quite nice
that all will face the same price
For I am Mountainman
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Price on Teranet express is as it was before. Price at LRO has increased. It was always $28 for remote viewing at Teranet express.
I might be the only one here who thinks this is a good thing. I always do remote searches anyway and am pretty selective about which properties I do due diligence.
JT:
There were a number of changes (eg. execution searches also went up.) and I have not reviewed entire list. Interesting in that I do most of my searches in the registry office so I can get access to historical documents if I need them. (e.g. to help assess environmental risk.)
Basic issue is the cost of the lowest cost search has gone up significantly and the cost of a basic title and execution search combo is now a minimum $40 - $50 per property. This can add up quickly.
Eg. in the upcoming Port Hope sale (which most people will not have information on yet I am looking at a $1,200 to $1,500 outlay.) for only one tax sale.
Add to this cost of bank drafts and this becomes an expensive hobby.
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Apart from the LRO search increase, the other increases just adjust the price based on CPI - just keeping pace with inflation. They aren't even incrementing by the full CPI...only 50%.
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Apart from the LRO search increase, the other increases just adjust the price based on CPI - just keeping pace with inflation. They aren't even incrementing by the full CPI...only 50%.
JT:
Once you add in the fact that they also added HST to the increase the price increase is well above inflation. Your basic MINIMUM search package of title and execution search for a property with one owner is now almost $45.00 compared to under $20.00 before. Bottom line is future title search expenses will be significant.
Add to that the additional searching we will need for environmental and we will get to your desired $150 per tax sale in a number of cases. :'(
We are getting price increases in other areas as well. I just got dinged by a municipality who are charging me with a surcharge for the change of address so they can charge me property taxes. >:(
I just hope you are right that this will result in less competition but I don't think so. If the tax sale quality and volume we see in November is the new normal more people will get interested.
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I'm not saying it is cheap. Only that it hasn't gotten much more expensive.
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...also, I think the reason for HST now is because $20 of the fee is the ELRSA fee which is subject to HST. The old $8 was a statutory fee and is not subject to HST. I haven't ordered a search since the change, but I think you'll find the HST charged is not 13% of the total. I think it will be 13% of only the ELRSA fee i.e. ($20x0.13=2.6).
That is, the statutory fees under the Land Titles Act (i.e., the $8) goes to the government so no tax is charged, but the ELRSA fee (i.e., the $20) goes to the ELRSA service provider, Teranet, and so these are subject to tax.
You are now paying HST since you are now paying an ELRSA fee.
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Matt/JT/ Mountainman:
We have spent too much time on this subject and the best way to find out is how it applies in Practice. Lets look at a Tax Sale that even OTS or Tri Target have yet to find. Over 30 properties most within 20 minutes of a Go Station, Close to 401 and maybe with walking distance of the rumoured nudist Beach :o
http://www.porthope.ca/public-notices/sale-of-land-by-public-tender-7
Most minimums less then $10,000 and if you can get a buildable lot for minimum price with the current price of Land in Clarington (It is just east of the Clarington / Port Hope county Line) you can probably make 10 times your investment. Some of the lots are undersized so you will have to do a combination of adjoining lots.
Of course if you want to learn French there is always Montreal but you will have to wait until next year as the tax sale is today.
http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=44,9487678&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
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Dave2:
Thanks for the link. Port Hope certainly puts together a great tender package. The summary at page 37 regarding RCP 173 was far more information than is often provided.