Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum

Tax Sale Forum => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: stever on October 25, 2006, 12:37:33 AM

Title: Bluewater Property
Post by: stever on October 25, 2006, 12:37:33 AM
I noticed the Bluewater property has a crown lien of $ 61,000.00. The minimum tender is $48000.00 Would the municipality use any of the money they recieve over the $48000.00 to pay towards the crown lien??

Thanks in advance
Steve
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: jreist on October 25, 2006, 12:41:13 AM
Nope
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: Frank on October 25, 2006, 04:53:36 AM
Take the $61k and find out when it was first put on.  If you can determine the interest rate on it (usually 10 to 15% compounding), then do the math and add it to the $48k minimum bid.  If that all works out for you then go ahead and buy it. 

If you bid any more than $48k then the Town puts that into court for any interested parties to go after.  If the crown is successful in getting any part of it, then their net debt may decline - but don't bank on it.

Sounds like a real steal.
Title: Re: Fort Erie Property
Post by: mantlerc on October 26, 2006, 06:34:06 AM
 ?????? Has anyone heard about Fort Erie Property tax sales, yesterday? Cathy M.
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: Jim on October 27, 2006, 02:47:57 PM
jreist:  are you sure about that?  According to the Municipal Act, 2001:

Application of proceeds
      380.  (1)  The proceeds of a sale under section 379 shall,
         (a)    firstly, be applied to pay the cancellation price;
         (b)    secondly, be paid to all persons, other than the owner, having an interest in the land according to their priority at law; and
         (c)    thirdly, be paid to the person who immediately before the registration of the tax deed was the owner of the land.  2001, c. 25, s. 380 (1).


It would seem to me that the crown would be the first in line under sub-section (b).  My understanding is that any residual amount of the crown lien would still be the responsibility of the new owner, though.

Title: Re: Fort Erie - Results
Post by: Ion on October 27, 2006, 05:07:44 PM
Property              Minimum       Number                           The highest bid
                          tender amount      of tenders
1.      $2,814.28      2         $3,000
2.      $6,273.08      2         $8,200
3.      $2,334.76      6         $6,011
4.      $2,913.71      none
5.      $3,142.72      2         $4,510
6.      $1,861.41      none
7.      $1,900.54      1         $3,231
8.      $3,950.88      1         $4,206
9.      $2,264.17      none
10.      $5,080.71      none
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: guoxiaozhong on October 27, 2006, 07:28:48 PM
These are undevelopable land.

Can anyone tell me what is use to buy it ?

What you can do on these land?
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: jreist on October 31, 2006, 11:23:08 AM
jreist:  are you sure about that?  According to the Municipal Act, 2001:

Application of proceeds
      380.  (1)  The proceeds of a sale under section 379 shall,
                  (b)    secondly, be paid to all persons, other than the owner, having an interest in the land according to their priority at law; and
       
It would seem to me that the crown would be the first in line under sub-section (b).  My understanding is that any residual amount of the crown lien would still be the responsibility of the new owner, though.


I asked this question at another Tax Sale where there was a Crown Lein and I was told no. I forgot who the Crown lean was, but I talked to the person in in that dept who was dealing with the Crown Lean and was told that they would require the Crown Lein payed before the property could be registered. 
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: Frank on October 31, 2006, 02:52:21 PM
Crown Liens stay on title - ie. they survive a tax sale.  Municipalities have no business in requiring that they be paid before transferring title to you as the successful purchaser - any tax collector that tells you other wise is full of you know what, and you should have your solicitor read him the riot act (I've come across a few that need speaking to).

As to whether or not the crown agency goes after the excess proceeds of sale (presuming there are any), the money is there for them to ask for once it goes to court, and certainly they would have a claim to it.  However, whether they do or not is totally at their discretion.  Usually the lien has been placed on numerous properties simultaneously (as we saw with the two cottage properties on Kennebec lake) and they could care less who pays up - but eventually they will get theirs.  It would certainly improve your equity if they did, and perhaps if you found yourself in that position, you should do whatever you could to pressure them to do so - again a letter from your lawyer affirming that the money is theirs for the asking and that the amount of the lien on title should be reduced by that amount regardless of whether they take action might help (in the end you cannot bluff or cheat the Queen, and if they don't take action to get it then they will still want their entire tythe).
Title: Re: Bluewater Property
Post by: NiagaraInvestor on October 31, 2006, 10:58:54 PM
I was just wondering in regards to sheriff sales are they the same as tax sales regarding title to the property? ie. Liens or mortgages do they dissapear after the successfull bidder pays off the balance? I understand that crown leins stay with tax sales but I haven't heard much talk about Sheriff Auctions.
This is a great site I have been looking for a forum to chat with like minded investors and here it is!

Thanks for your help!