Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => General => Topic started by: ruteger on May 03, 2007, 10:24:50 PM
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Does anyone know the outcome?
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Yeah, 93 bids. Highest bid was $141150.00. One guy complained and said all bids but his should be thrown out because the city supplied envelopes that didn't specify that it was a tax sale and apparently he wrote tax sale on his envelope. The city is looking into legality of the situation.
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That's way too much for that house anyways....could probably find one with a realtor for that much.
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Yeah they way overpaid. That house was up for sale and I was in it. Needs a lot of work, there was no heat or hydro in it since December.
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Hi,
Couldn't get out of work today, never made it to the sale, sent in a bid though. If 'they're looking into the legalities, does that mean they'll have the sale again?
Sasha
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I was there this afternoon and 2 guys objected that to reject all the tenders, as there was words written "Tax Sale" on the envelopes provided by the city.. they are going to get the legal opinion also there was a issue of tax sale was conducted by the deputy treasurer and envelope was not addressed to City Treasure not in according to Municipal act tax sale. there were 92 bids Highest was 141150 and second highest was 141100.. good luck next time. Any one looking at the Hamilton properties. Please post details if you availabel thank
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Does anyone know what was wrong with the property?
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Hi,
141,500 is way less than the fair market value for the house (close though). Nearby houses are going for 170,000 or 180,000.
Sasha
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Does any one know how the city decided finally on the tax sale and the legal consequences.
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Paying 141500 was too high. You have to consider the property tax owing - 18000, so you're close to 160,000 for a two bedroom house that needs work. You could get into a three bedroom and have an inspection for 165000. Doesn't make sense.
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Hi,
Someone was telling me that if they allow a home close to Toronto that appears to look good on the outside go for much less than the fair market value of surrounding houses then it will bring down the value of surrounding homes. I'm not sure if the sale price of tax sale properties counts in these determinations.
Sasha
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My impression is that a winning bid includes the tax owing on the property. In other words, you would not add the tax owing onto the winning bed; is this correct?
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Hi,
Someone was telling me that if they allow a home close to Toronto that appears to look good on the outside go for much less than the fair market value of surrounding houses then it will bring down the value of surrounding homes. I'm not sure if the sale price of tax sale properties counts in these determinations.
Sasha
If you mean by "they" to be the municipality running the tax sale then that information is incorrect. They cannot control what a home goes for in a tax sale. Overpriced or underpriced they have no control on the final price of the property other than possibly withholding information on a property which is something I haven't seen personally.
Do you think the price of one home at a tax sale selling for under market value is going to change the MPAC assessments on every other house in the area? Of course not.
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My impression is that a winning bid includes the tax owing on the property. In other words, you would not add the tax owing onto the winning bed; is this correct?
i'm not sure, I was under the impression they were seperate. Anyone know?
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The municipal goverment is not required to get fair market value. It is only obligated to accept the highest bid. in fact the difference between the minimun tender amount and the amount of the winning bid goes to the Public Guardian {or legal equivalent.}
It takes 12 months from when the cancellation price or min. tender is set before the Municipal can set a tender date. The Cancellation price or min. tender is the amount of back taxes and a small admin fee at the date of intial filing. It could be much longer before the municpal actually sets the sale date, so you will end up paying another year or two or three of taxes, then land tranfer tax, GST unless the land has been sold once before as residence, any crown leins and an admin fee for getting and filing the tax to you. All things you need to factor into your tender.
if you google Ontario Municipal Act and read the tax in arrears section it is pretty straight forward, then read the regulation that the act provisions for. You will be surprised how simple it is.
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Hi,
Someone was telling me that if they allow a home close to Toronto that appears to look good on the outside go for much less than the fair market value of surrounding houses then it will bring down the value of surrounding homes. I'm not sure if the sale price of tax sale properties counts in these determinations.
Sasha
Speed is correct, the Municipality doesn't care and has no control over the final price, as long as it gets its minimum bid then it has to release the property. Obviously, if the price is higher then they will have a kick at the excess proceeds once another year has passed and no one claims it and therefore could stand to gain more from a higher price - but the minimum tender price is the benchmark they must adhere to.
When MPAC does market value re-assessments, they take all transactions in each area to determine the appropriate values - however, they discount any transactions that were not made at arms length and any distress sales such as forclosures and tax sales.
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Winning tender amount has to be minimum $$$$ prescribed by the municipality which includes the all the back taxes owed up to the point the certificate is registered against the property. However at the time of closing buyer has to pay the taxes from the time of certificate registered and current which could be a minor amount. Like in the case of Oshawa propert the taxes owed were $18K+ are included in the highest bid of $141150 plus the closing cost and tax adjustment..
Does any one know how did they resolved the legal issue which was raised on the date of sale by one 2 of the participants..
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The issue was resolved by cancelling the sale and running it again. Just got my letter. Not sure what the problem was as the ad said to use the prescribed envelope and form. Pretty simple.
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The problem was one of the top 10 bidders requested that anyone whose envelope was not clearly marked "Tax Sale" be thrown out because it wasn't in accordance with the municipal act, therefore was not a valid bid. Seeing as most people just handed in the envelope the city gave them for there bid as is without writing "TAX SALE", this would probably have left him as the highest bidder. So, the deputy treasure decided to look into and i guess the decision has been made to do the tax sale all over.
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Hi,
I sent in a bid but never got any letter. I'm out this time though, since I can't go as high as $141,500. The same bidder will probably bid again. It a little to much to pay for that house, since I haven't seen the inside, just the outside. Too close to the fair market value and the assessment value. If it needs $$$ work done, then buying through MLS is just the same value.
I thought tax sales were a way that person could get a good deal for a home that they normally couldn't afford, either for investment or to live in.
Sasha
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Just got my letter today too. Like I said before I was in that house before the tax sale. It was listed with real estate. I put in an offer of $110,000 cash but got no response from selling party. After my offer the real estate agent took the house off the market since the client wouldn't deal with any offers. I figure it needs at least $ 30,000 in repairs, thats why I think the winning bid was way too high. Doesn't matter now they get to try again. Good luck.
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hi everybody I am quite surprised the amount of the winning bid although this is my first time to bid in tax sale . I first consider the prevailing market price plus any crown fees to be added cost on top of the bid price plus the cost of repair of the house and I am not expected to go that high . That drove me to a conclusion that will be over price. just as sascha quote you are right I can buy much better house in that amount of money in that area. For those who want to bid again I wish you luck.
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hi everybody I am quite surprised the amount of the winning bid although this is my first time to bid in tax sale . I first consider the prevailing market price plus any crown fees to be added cost on top of the bid price plus the cost of repair of the house and I am not expected to go that high . That drove me to a conclusion that will be over price. just as sascha quote you are right I can buy much better house in that amount of money in that area. For those who want to bid again I wish you luck.
If you're looking to buy for an investment you should also include your time involved, cost of selling, land transfer tax, other taxes, opportunity costs (cost of tying up your money in the house instead of somewhere else), etc.
To me on a 165k potential house your looking at 10-15k in taxes and incidentals and then if its going to take 30k to fix it up, and then you're tying up your money in it. Assuming prices don't go up alot (which they haven't and probably won't in Oshawa) then unless you can get it for maximum 110k then I wouldn't even bother, even at that price I'm not sure that I would. Put your money in a decent investment and make the more money without the running around and hassle. Tax sale doesn't always mean "good deal", especially the last few couple years.
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Hi,
Thats exactly what I thought. Mutual funds (the ones that follow the TSX index) have returns of more that 10% per year, most bank portfolios that are diversified are paying much more than current interest rates. My GIC, that I cashed in to make a bid was paying 4% per year interest and U.S $ GIC are paying more in interest and there's a chance that the CAD $ will keep going down (although its been hovering between 88 and 91 for the past while) to make even more money.
I think $100,000 is too much to pay for the Oshawa house, it certainly isn't a 'good deal'. A good deal would be 70K or 80K and after the house was repaired and all outstanding fees paid, the new owner could sell and still make money or live in the house and, even in a down market still make a profit. Appartantly, new home builders have reduced the prices by 16% in the past year. The houses in areas with no new homes in established areas are still going up, older homes in areas where new homes are being built nearby are going down, unless the person owns acreage that may be attractive to a builder. I think too many people are anticipating a real estate boom, one that is now coming to an end with very slow growth.
I was just looking on the mls for an investment property, a home that currently has renters. If I bought the property with more than 50% down payment and the current renters stayed, after paying utilities and paying for repairs and other costs to owning and renting a home and the interest on the mortgage (although interest rates are quite low compared to 20 years ago, I bought a home in 1991 at 9.5% interrest and a friend bought her home in 1988 at 12% interest), my return on the investment would be 6% not much more than investing my downpayment in a good bank investment vehicle, I'd be counting on a capital gain at the time of selling, that is hoping that the price of the house would go up. That's okay, if I could keep the house for many years, since eventually it would go up and if the there was no problem renting it if the current renters left. My employment situation at this point isn't stable, so I hesitate.
Besides, having lost before on a home sale that was my principle residence (sold for 10K less than what I bought it for and had a mortgage of 9.5% and was out of work for a while) its now my principle to never buy a home unless I can afford the entire house price (without a mortgage) and I can't at this point, perhaps a tax sale home.
Sasha
Sasha
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Anyone know the closing date of the oshawa tender?
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not advertised yet .. keep watching good luck...
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Does anyone know the guy that won the first bid. Or does he post on this site?