Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Property Information => Topic started by: lonewolfsek on August 18, 2008, 06:15:18 PM
-
I remember a burnt out tax sale property in the area of this sale a year ago. The property was only 13 feet wide. Has anyone seen this recent property. Is it worth the drive?
-
It is the same property. The municipality did not undertake the proper tax sale process. Also, it was not 13 feet wide and was a clean site. Unfortunately there was too much competition for the house and people bid far too high.
-
Do you remember what sort of numbers we people bidding last time??
-
I don't remember the exact amounts, but if my memory serves me correct the assessed value of the property was 221,000 and the highest bidder was in the 215,000 range. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
-
Is this not the property where the first 3 bidders did not properly complete the outside of the envelope and the sale cancelled. I remember the high bid was around $242,000. Crazy eh! This guy even had his lawyer prepare the tender and still not properly completed.
-
Is this not the property where the first 3 bidders did not properly complete the outside of the envelope and the sale cancelled. I remember the high bid was around $242,000. Crazy eh! This guy even had his lawyer prepare the tender and still not properly completed.
Right, it was put up for sale early last year. I never did hear the results, but those are obviously the butt-heads I was referring to.
That house (especially given what you can buy next door, on the market), should not go for a penny more thant $150k, and at that you would not make much. The uncertainties of what is inside and the likely-hood of having to spend money to retro-fit and redecorate will reduce any profit you might be able to make by flipping it. If the property has been vacant...has it been heated?, are there termites?, mice/bats in the attic? etc., etc... Buyer beware.
-
I was there at the sale. Market value at the time had the house on Wilson street assessed at $186,000. The top bid was about $140,000 (give or take a couple thousand). One and his partner bid $110,000 and they were the ones that caused a stink about making sure the envelopes were properly address and marked etc. They wanted all the other improperly marked envelopes disqualified because the rules state very explicitly what has to be one the front of the envelope etc and if you haven't done it correctly - your bid is invalid. This would mean there bid was the winning bid. The treasurer wasn't sure what to do at the time and finally came up with redoing the tax sale a year later. There were a maybe a total of 100 bids. That's the scoop!
-
I was at the sale last year. The house is assessed at $164,000. The highest bid was $141,500. The envelopes that Oshawa supplied for everyone to put their bids in did not say"tax sale" on the front. One bidder wrote tax sale on his and said all other bids should be thrown out since those envelopes did not have tax sale written on them. City decided to cancell sale. This house probably will not be redeemed, family in- fighting. House has been vacant for almost two years. It was on mls before tax sale, I put an offer on it but got no response. Needs major work slight mold problem in basement.
-
Apex is correct. Are you sure its the same house? The envelopes had to be adressed to the 'treasurer'.
-
How would you know there was mold in the basement?
-
He put an offer on the house when it was for sale, that means that he had the opportunity to go inside.
-
I'm quite a distance from Oshawa (I'm up north and watch the news and read the Star online). If the GM plant in Oshawa has closed or is closing and the area is quite depressed and the home requires major work, why would anyone bid 141.5K for a home assessed at 164K? Even on mls, with the future of Oshawa looking quite bleak and the fact that housing prices and starts are going down across the country (the west with the most dramatic decrease is house prices in the past year), I'd pay less than assessment. I'd think at a tax sale you'd pay much less than fair market value.
In my area a large logging company is laying off many employees, many people moving and getting jobs elsewhere. That, and the fact that house prices are decreasing, real estate agents are appraising homes at less than assessment value, especially the ones that require work. Many homes in the area are not brick and built in the 1970's and 80's and haven't had any major renovations. The only real estate in our town said 'in a booming market, fair market value is much more than assessment, in a market downturn, sometimes fair market value is much less than assessment value.' If the owners don't want their homes going POS or tax sale, then they'll have to accept less.
In southern Ontario, with the popularity of these tax sales, people are paying more at a tax sale then what the person may have gotten on mls. The market isn't what is was 2 years ago.
-
I'm quite a distance from Oshawa (I'm up north and watch the news and read the Star online). If the GM plant in Oshawa has closed or is closing and the area is quite depressed and the home requires major work, why would anyone bid 141.5K for a home assessed at 164K? Even on mls, with the future of Oshawa looking quite bleak and the fact that housing prices and starts are going down across the country (the west with the most dramatic decrease is house prices in the past year), I'd pay less than assessment. I'd think at a tax sale you'd pay much less than fair market value.
In my area a large logging company is laying off many employees, many people moving and getting jobs elsewhere. That, and the fact that house prices are decreasing, real estate agents are appraising homes at less than assessment value, especially the ones that require work. Many homes in the area are not brick and built in the 1970's and 80's and haven't had any major renovations. The only real estate in our town said 'in a booming market, fair market value is much more than assessment, in a market downturn, sometimes fair market value is much less than assessment value.' If the owners don't want their homes going POS or tax sale, then they'll have to accept less.
In southern Ontario, with the popularity of these tax sales, people are paying more at a tax sale then what the person may have gotten on mls. The market isn't what is was 2 years ago.
Unlike Elliot Lake (when the Uranium mines closed)...or Flint Michigan (if you get a chance check out the film by Michael Moore ... I believe it was called 'Roger & Me')...or your logging town, Oshawa is hardly a 'one horse town'. A decrease would be expected in the event of GM closure, however I don't believe it will be as severe as you predict.
And Yes, people have been paying far too much for properties that you can't even inspect...and likely have many problems.
-
I think this one is a little too rich for my blood. I would appreciate some info from the winner of the Oshawa property. I am curious to know how much gets spent to fix it up and what the final resale price would be. My thoughts are that the profit would be less than $10,000. Especially if there is a mold problem. I called a couple of mold companies and they told me for a small mold problem it could be as little as $1,200, and as high as $30,000 for a property that size to get cleaned up. My main concern is that the heat has been turned off for 4 years and what was left in the water pipes may have burst the pipes and caused a mold problem throughout the house. I would have enjoyed fixing this one up (my first attempt). But my thought are right now that the risk is too high, I think I would end up loosing $$$. I have been waiting around for two years to find a property worth bidding on that is within my budget. Oh well, guess I'll keep waiting. No one ever said this would be easy. Not to mention I have not even checked for liens yet.
Frank...I am curious, how long have you been at this and how many properties have you got through tax sales (if you don't mind). You definitely seem to know your stuff.
-
Frank...I am curious, how long have you been at this and how many properties have you got through tax sales (if you don't mind). You definitely seem to know your stuff.
It seems like I've been at this forever, however it has really been quite a short time since I am only 28 years old....I started young. ;D
I've managed to land a couple, and done ok. There's lots to stay away from unless you want to lose your shirt.
-
Unlike Elliot Lake (when the Uranium mines closed)...or Flint Michigan (if you get a chance check out the film by Michael Moore ... I believe it was called 'Roger & Me')...or your logging town, Oshawa is hardly a 'one horse town'. A decrease would be expected in the event of GM closure, however I don't believe it will be as severe as you predict.
And Yes, people have been paying far too much for properties that you can't even inspect...and likely have many problems.
I wouldn't call it a one horse town, but I would (like Alliston) consider the property price levels to have been inflated due to the factories being there and middle class workers making white collar money.
Because of the rest of the GTA, I wouldn't expect a nosedive in prices, but definately a short term oversupply if people move away when the jobs dry up.
-
A lot of the 'blue collar' workers are making more than white collar workers. Unions started to prevent workers being taken advantage of and poor working conditions, nowadays its the other way around. I know a lot of people with Bachelors and Masters degrees making less than truck drivers and GM line workers.
Still, the closure will have an effect on house prices. The prices are going down all over the country (been reading the newspapers) and the towns/cities with manufacturing losses will see the most dramatic decreases.
When I bid for Oshawa a year ago, the guy sitting beside me also saw the place when it was mls and wanted to buy it and rent it out, he bid quite high since he had thought of buying it anyway when it was mls. If its the same place.
-
My wife and I stopped by the Oshawa property today. It looks in good shape from the outside. I talked to the neighbour and he was telling us that 30 people have looked at the property today alone! The home has been vacant for 4 years and the hydro line is cut to the house.
The location of the property is right off the 401. This is a good location for many people who commute to Toronto everyday.
-
I'm sure there have been over 100 people doing a thorough investigation on that property. It won't go for less than 155,000. I personally ran an in depth history of the owner and have a good idea of what to expect inside. I have given up......mostly because I can't come up with that kind of money..... anyone good for a $1000,000 loan? Who ever gets it is should make $10,000 - $15,000 profit.
-
"Who ever gets it is should make $10,000 - $15,000 profit.
Why in the world would anyone risk 150 or more for a lousy 10 to 15 profit? If you cant see 30 to 50 points minimum on a taxsale deal, I would not waste my time.
4 years no hydro, means frozen and broken pipes, severe mold infection etc..The house was bought in 70, looks like a divorce or death of wife in 83. Kitchens and bath(s) will be decades out of date ( probably only one bath) There will be 50k MIN in repairs to bring it up to speed. The area sales are in the 160 to 225 range but latest is 175 closed 2 weeks ago ( 225 last year was an overpay)
Dont waste your time or money on this one. Unless you can come in around 100k there is no deal here but that wont happen as some dreamer will pay way too much on this one.
-
Pfm1011 you are right. I was in this house a year ago and if anyone wants to flip it and make money they better not pay more than $100,000 for it. Needs total renovation inside and as I said earlier there is a slight mold problem. I am not bidding on it this time, someone will surely over bid on it. Housing market in Oshawa has taken a bit of a hit. I've been trying to sell a flip of mine in Brooklin and am getting offers $25,000- $30,000 below asking. Looks like I'm going to lose my shirt on that one. Good luck to whoever wins this bid.
-
Just a quick comment about east GTA - All of the media coverage would indicate that land values have already declined, yet in fact the year-over-year prices have increased in all Durham municipalities except for Whitby. The year-over-year housing supply has also increased and one could assume a levelling of prices over the course of the next 18 months, but I just wanted to point out that the situation is not as bad as the media illustrates.
-
hello
Results from Oshawa sale TODAY
28 bids (1) rejected
1) 138,925.00 paid way too much
2) 121,900.00
3) 121,100.00
4) 110,000.00
Apparently the guy offered it for 10,000 above price plus the land transfer.
Don't think he realized he would owe the taxes and also there was a 20,000.00 lein put on the property Aug 25,08
Good LUck Too the BUYER...LOL
-
Silly, but not as not as silly as I thought it would be. I figured someone would go over 150, ( If the lien is valid they went 159 but Im guessing not knowingly)
Who put the lien on the property at the 11th hour? If it is valid, going to be impossible to get out of this deal alive unless you can do all the work yourself and you get very very very lucky. I feel sorry for the bidder if they didnt know about the new lien when they bid. Not a nice surprise at all
-
I've definitely seen worse for a tax sale.
Hey it's not like the guy threw away a boatload of money for it. Last time I checked you can't get a condo in the GTA for that price.. at least anywhere you'd not be scared to live.
Probably just a GM worker blowing a years pay. ;)
-
Whoever got the place won't be able to 'flip it' for any profit, they probably want to hang on to it for a while. The comment regarding the GM workers, I know of a truck driver making more than 100K per year (yes his job is dangerous with long hours and lonely since he does cross Canada and drives to U.S) and a guy with an MBA working as a director of a large corporation (where everyone has at least a Bachelors) and making 80K and he had to work his way up to the posiiton. I guess its all in how you sell yourself, talked to a miner today (actually a geologist with a Bachelors in Geology) got a very high position with an exploration company that will probably be eaten alive by Goldcorp (a company with no debt and billions in cash assets operating at a huge profit, for now) and though his company is operating at a loss and has been in the past few years, he makes enough money to buy an island, which he just bought (no wonder the company is operating at a loss if the employees make enough to buy an island). I'm still waiting for an island to come up on tax sale.