Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: David on November 17, 2008, 04:01:23 PM
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Hi Guys -
I am having a difficult time finding a cheap way to do a title search, name searches etc. My Laywer charges a hundred and change and ontariotaxsales is quite expense as well. Any advice?
Thanks.
David
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You wont get any cheaper then ontariotaxsales. Its title and execution search. additionally they advise if there is a crown interest that will remain after the sale . Im guessing your lawyer may perform the search but will not give you an accurate statement whether the lien or claim will survive
The only way to get cheaper is to pay 3 k for a subscription which will cut the cost to 30 but that doesnt include execution
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" The only way to get cheaper is to pay 3 k for a subscription which will cut the cost to 30 but that doesnt include execution "
Are you talking aboutTeranet? The largest fixed cost regardingstax sales is the title searches required ( besides using my helicopter to buzz around the properties), It's my belief that lawyers, ontariotaxsales etc ..are just middle men providing a service in which you can get cheaper cut them out and do it yourself with Teranet, do the numbers make sense to become a member of Teranet? has anyone figured out how many searches you have to do per year to make it worthwhile?
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Teranet is 3K , Then its 30 per search so in theory you have to do a minimum of 45 just to break even..HOWEVER Teranet does not give you the instruments , deeds , execution searches etc.Ontariotaxsales does so unless the tiltle is absolutely clean in the teranet summary you still have to get a full title search and execution search done on anything you bid on. Essentially there is no break even and its just a time saving tool and gives you access to the neighbourhood sales reports and the ability to search by PIN.
Long and short, you cant do cheaper then ontariotaxsales. I have teranet and still use them . I just use teranet for prebid info, I use the pros for the final title search.
There is no way to drop your costs below 150 to 200 a bid minimum .
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teranet does not give you the instruments , deeds , execution searches etc.Ontariotaxsales does so unless the tiltle is absolutely clean in the teranet summary you still have to get a full title search and execution search done on anything you bid on.
Sometimes information is not available through Ontario Tax Sales. They will say usually in red, TITLE SEARCHES ARE NOT AVAILABLE. Then what do you do ? Use a lawyer? Are there other title searchers available?
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If there is nothing at ontariotaxsales, then you can phone the local land regisrtry and they generally will be able to tell you a local lawyer who will do it for you. Thats about the best you can do. Unfortunately there is costs to this game.
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Instead of using lawyers, title searchers are also an option. They are generally cheaper, however the downside to using their service instead of a lawyer is that they are not legally liable for the information they provide you.
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If there is nothing at ontariotaxsales, then you can phone the local land regisrtry and they generally will be able to tell you a local lawyer who will do it for you. Thats about the best you can do.[/quot
What about about doing the search yourself. After all the registry office is a public place. Is that possible? Does anyone know how to do this? i am sure there must be co operation at the office.
Thanks now for in any helpful info
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I did a title search at the local land registry office at a very low fee (a few dollars). If you're in the area or driving to the local land registry office isn't too costly, then do it yourself. I joined Ontariotaxsales.ca to save driving to a lot of locations. The only time you need a lawyer is to register the title, after you win.
Sasha
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Sasha:
I hope I am not missing something here but the last tax sale I won the title was registered by the township for me at no charge.
If you do the title and execution search yourself I don't see the need for a lawyer. Now commercial and industrial and more expensive properties you would want a competent person (or a lawyer if no competent person is available) to complete the sale for you.
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Sasha has the best plan. The way I usually do it is as follows:
1. Once I see a property I like, I wait 2-3 weeks before the sale(just in case it is redeemed). I buy the tender package from the township or ontariotaxsales.ca and then do a drive by to see it for myself. Once there I talk to all the neighbours and and the occupant, maybe even call a local RE agent. LOL--just kidding about the last sentence, had to get a job in at PMF1011
2. If its all good then I will do a title search at the local land registry office the same day as the bidding is done, I put my bid in and wait to see if I'm a winner. This is the most economical way to do it as far as searchs are concerned.
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I did a title search at the local land registry office at a very low fee (a few dollars). If you're in the area or driving to the local land registry office isn't too costly, then do it yourself. I joined Ontariotaxsales.ca to save driving to a lot of locations. The only time you need a lawyer is to register the title, after you win.
Sasha
No need for a lawyer to close on a tax sale. The Municipality gives you a 'tax deed' once you have given them your money, and it is yours.
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I've done a few searches but haven't won a sale, yet (selective in the areas and properties that I'm willing to bid on), many weren't available on ontariotaxsales.ca but I did the searches myself. I was advised to have a lawyer to close if I ever won since there have been a few rare cases where next of kin or someone has tried to claim the property after the sale (person that advised me is a lawyer, though he was honest enough to tell me that I could do the title searches myself and it would cost more to use him and that he can't bid against me).
Nice to know that I don't need him if I win and to close, thanks Frank.
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Frank et al (and others)
My understanding is the property was given to the crown way back.Which doesn't make sense as they pay no tax.
Could you not ask them to remove the easement from the deed.What would they care?
Not bidding ,but interesting.
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Let me throw one out for you folks to chew on. If you call any registry office in Ontario they will do the title and execution search for you and charge $35 plus what ever cost of the documents. Isn't this cheaper than Ontario tax sales.com? Why would you put out $3000 for Terranet and still pay $30 for search?
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Very true..except for travel time and schedule. Teranet is not the "be all and end all" It is a tool which saves time, Not money. Additionally you have to be doing more then just tax sales to justify having it. I still have to use Ontariotaxsales for the final report . The only problem with doing your own is if there is an issue are you sure you caught everything and are you willing to bet on it versus spending 100 for the pro's?
IE a piece out in Thorold , had a 225 mortgage to the St Lawrence Seaway Authority from early 90,s which is now a private corporation. So if you did the search you would most likely say it was void and the crown had no interest as the Authority is a private company and no longer a Crown corp. I had Ontariotaxsales run a report which said there was a crown interest, I thought they were wrong and did a pile of research , dug up the final budget before privitization and low and behold ..When the company went private the mortgages were tranferred to Public works. So a crown interest did exist. They were right, I was wrong. Because I spent the 100 I saved 100k . ( Strangely enough someone did buy it for 125 , I presume they are now crying as public works wanted 350 plus to walk away)
Just for interest , if anyone on here knows the buyer , did they manage to negotiate down or ..are they crying? As far as I can tell, unless Public works walked away completely , they are crying as the land was only worth 125ish to start
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Thanks for the reminder PFM. The story about the property in Thorold should be a lesson to all of us. Do your friggin homework. We all might snicker at the poor guy who bought this property but it probably has devastated his finances and family. This is a real sad story that could have been easily avoided.
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I never snicker at someone in a situation like that as they made a small mistake which costs large. I just hope I never do the same, and we all are at risk of doing so. It was a great piece of land which overlooked the welland canal and is a great site for a house so I can understand why they wanted it so badly. How cool would it be to sit on the porch and watch freighters cruise by.
However I do laugh quite gleefully at the people who just plain and simple overpay for houses trying to get rich quick by doing a flip
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If you call any registry office in Ontario they will do the title and execution search for you and charge $35 plus what ever cost of the documents. Isn't this cheaper than Ontario tax sales.com?
You can do the search yourself or you can have a title searcher do the search. Some properties are not available for title search by OTS, therefore if you want to go forward you use a title searcher. If I asked my lawyer for the search he would have his secretary call the local title searcher and charge a nice premium. An important difference pointed out by Pawel when using a title searcher...They are generally cheaper, however the downside to using their service instead of a lawyer is that they are not legally liable for the information they provide you.