Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => General => Topic started by: netpred on May 04, 2009, 11:59:55 PM
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Seven new tax sales in Trent Hills. See their website. They give great information. Most properties seem to have serious issues such as zoning, landlocked, unassumed road etc. One may be OK but do your own work please. Do not rely on anything that I or anyone else says.
On the others, be especially careful. You can get a great deal if you have the capacity to fight with City Hall. Unless you are a lawyer you should hire one who knows his or her way around. If it goes beyond Committee of Adjustment, you will also need a planner, about $10,000 for a good one. So keep all of this in mind. You can easily spend $20,000 or more to try to deal with the zoning issue and still strike out. Keep in mind that you may also have to deal with the local conservation authority. A bigger pain than the municipal authorities. None of the properties are waterfront or seem to have any special value although I haven't driven out to have a look. My guess is that many will have no bids or will sell for the minimum. A great way to buy a property to tell your friends that you are a landowner. You will of course have to pay taxes or you will see your property out for tax sale in three years.
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Thanks for the listing info
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Thanks for the heads up.
I just hope I don't run into the same problem as last time in this township
when I stupidly fell in love with a nice house that was by the Trent River. Over 50 documents against title
and my lawyer's bill was three times normal. Almost at the cost of a regular sales closing. Of course it was redeemed.
Of general note to newbies on the board this township was hit hard by checkerboarding (It was one of White Rock Estates favourite development areas) and they have extensive defences against allowing you to develop any old piece of land. They will not allow a building permit on property fronting on what they call "private roads". Half of this group's listing's fall into that category. Note they require road frontages that are typically greater then a single checkerboard lot. Watch the setback rules
They can really bite on an irregular piece of property.
And of course believe it or not our old favourite the Oak Ridges moraine is even in the township.
That being said of course it serves as an excuse it serves as an excuse for a nice country drive. I believe that most of the properties are reasonably accessible; certainly much easier to reach then Frank's recent Muskoka cross country Jaunt.
Look me up for a coffee if you are in the area. (That's what private messages are for).
On another front I would like to say thanks to our hard working administrator, Rob.
Dave2
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Well I drove out this past weekend.
My guess is that you will get any of the vacant lots for the minimum. Not only are there zoning issues, but the land itself is pretty bad. Terrible private roads, really steep and in bad shape. The lots themselves are not level, some are low, all are overgrown, none has any special value as being waterfront etc. Basically, only value is for the neighbours (the one or two that have neighbours). I did not drive out to see the one north of Warkworth off county rd 25 because I had seen enough.
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I hope you didn't make decisions in your love life as you did in this tax sale. You must remember that the municipalities do not pick & choose which lots to put up for tax sale. If you've gone to the trouble of driving out to look, look at all of them, because you never know when a gem will pop up, so you might have missed the buy of the year this time, although I hope not. A few years back, I was put in the positon of having to take over the bid I put in for a friend(?), and decided to build our retirment home there; in the end, we sold it at cost because it was just too far from other business interests, and was just a bit smaller (1.4 Ac) than we really wanted, but it was north of Warkworth just off Hwy 25, and was a nice lot.
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No gems.Warkworth may be over assessed.3 is a good spot for a cattle pond.4 low.5 looks buildable.6 back hill at least 40degrees.
7 side hill 40 also.
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MarkyMark:
I would classify you as an optimist on this board if there is a scale of "buildability" if there is such an English word Referring to my earlier post:
"Of general note to newbies on the board this township was hit hard by checkerboarding (It was one of White Rock Estates favourite development areas) and they have extensive defences against allowing you to develop any old piece of land. They will not allow a building permit on property fronting on what they call "private roads". Half of this group's listing's fall into that category."
Unfortunately in my earlier post I too suffered from excessive optimism. I said half of the tax sale listings were on private roads
It is more like 80%. (All right Frank I stand corrected it is actually 6 out of 7 or 86%, although some of the listings have existing structures) The only one that is currently on a township road is #3. Thus listing #5 that you say may be buildable currently runs into the township private road building prohibition as I mentioned earlier. The key is when it may be changed. That requires local knowledge that is not in the public domain and is the reason why the winning bidders on this group will likely be local property owners or people who did not do their homework.
I also spent a nice afternoon yesterday at Lower Trent Conservation. They have beautiful offices way out in the middle of nowwhere north of Trenton. When I looked at the properties 10 days ago; I got a little concerned when a real estate for sale sign on neighbouring property advertises "waterfront" when there is no lake or river. All I can truthfully say is that there are designated wetland areas in very close proximity to a number of these properties. If you are going to bid on anything you had better check each one out very very carefully. Swampland is not just found in Florida.
The interesting one maybe the one with the existing structure which looked occupied (#1) or possibly 2 although the lot is small and my wife and I were not sure if the structure(s) included the chicken coop. Right now I have some other priorities and don't have the time to properly check them out. Of course that is why at the end of the process I may end up with egg on my face because I didn't follow Ernestbidder's advice and check out everything.
Dave2
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Dave.
I am not optimistic regarding the legal aspects of these vacant lots.
I just drove by 5 and it looked suitable to support a structure,not a black diamond slope.
I agree with your view on winning bids (blind is bad here).Regarding the so called interesting ones within proximity of water,
I believe you will be stuck with them as is.(Inoperable waste systems an obvious example).
No site alteration.No new construction.No new septic...
"buildability" The word rolls of tongue good so why not?
My earlier post a little blunt, but just giving a heads up on these.
Good Luck
Markymark.
ps. I hate typing.
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Markymark:
the theme of your post is patience. looking at the US right now I think our time is coming
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/2009/05/tax-collections/
Dave2
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I'm not referring to the Trent Hills properties here, but I think the time is NOW for jumping on some properties. The ones in the recent Severn tax sale were pretty decent, although I don't know what they ended up going for. If I had some spare cash I would have put it into one of those. One of them was as close to being waterfront as you could get without actually being waterfront.
Be careful with playing the waiting game, I've seen alot of people lose out on good deals by waiting. I see this year as being on of the best in several years for what will be available.
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"I see this year as being on of the best in several years for what will be available"
I hope you are correct..I need to buy something and the wife wont let me buy a sailboat...so I guess its more land
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PFM:
Why not a big engined power boat? You know the kind you can hear coming from three counties away. They are going for really cheap now south of the border. Also if you have a really co-operative wife you would finally have the excuse to equip them with the long haired beauties in skimpy bathing suits. My wife calls them the "accessories" but she is not so co-operative in allowing me to surround myself with this type of "distraction". Also I am not able to afford this type of luxury.
Think of it. You can post a couple of pictures on the board as proof to us all of the fortune you make from tax sale property buying and selling. Speed could even send you some marble so you could have a few statutes made like the ancient greeks and romans used to do on your (tax sale purchased) country estate.
Dave2
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"I see this year as being on of the best in several years for what will be available"
I hope you are correct..I need to buy something and the wife wont let me buy a sailboat...so I guess its more land
If a sailboat is what you want check out Florida.
The price is right, although it may be hard to get it across the border with no serial #.
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"Why not a big engined power boat? You know the kind you can hear coming from three counties away. They are going for really cheap now south of the border."
I Already have a 31 ft express cruiser ( Have to keep my Arab friends employed) Its in lake Ontario so it is BORING , You can only go tubing so many times before the novelty wears off, . I have to move it to Georgian bay or the Trent ..Need a sail boat so I can bone up on my sailing skills . Planning for my retirement..
That is a good plan, I can take over the Tom Vu infomercial time slot...
Tom VU Quotes (wiki)
Are you man enough to get off your lazy American ass and go to Vu?s seminars?"[1]
"A lot of your friends will tell you, 'Don't come to the seminar. It's a get-rich-quick plan.' Well, tell them, it is a get-rich-quick plan because life is too short to get rich slow."
"There's two kinds of work in America: hard work and smart work. Which one are you doing now?"
This is not a country club! This is my house!"
"Today I'm gonna show you how to drive a sports car. First, you need a lot of money!" (No truer words have ever been spoken)
Don't listen to your friends. They're losers!"
"Do you think these girls like me? NO, they like my money!"
"At first I got lots of discouragement from friends and stranger who are loser! You know what these people kept telling me? They kept saying, 'Well Tom Vu, you a crazy nut, here you are, a poor immigrant, poor minority, speak no English, no contact, on and on, and you trying to be rich in America! You crazy, man! Look at people out there! They smarter than you are, they not even rich! Who are you to try?' And you know what? I have to keep telling these people every time, I kept saying, 'You are loser! Get out of my way! I make it somehow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQNdi-fRExc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQNdi-fRExc)video
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Now I know why these guys have their canadian dealership west of toronto
http://www.ferrari.com/English/about_ferrari/Ferrari_today/Locations/FNA/Pages/FNA.aspx
At a bid opening I will finally be able to recognize you. On the other hand the people who drive these cars
usually wear dark glasses. Could we have two ferrari drivers in our midst?
Dave (alias also)
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"I see this year as being on of the best in several years for what will be available"
I hope you are correct..I need to buy something and the wife wont let me buy a sailboat...so I guess its more land
Amazing deals on sailboats (or any boat for that matter) are a dime a dozen in Florida right now. It's really not a big deal to import at all, except for paying GST.
I think there will be alot available this year for sure.. but it still doesn't mean there won't be the usual band of overbidders lurking around.
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Im stuck between these two..
http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2061859&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national& (http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2061859&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national&)
http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=1800231&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national& (http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=1800231&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national&)
These are tough choices ;D
seriously..how sweet is this
http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2043044&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national& (http://www.nationalyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2043044&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=national&&ywo=national&)
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A little too big for christie lake.Wasaga maybe.I like the repo personally.
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Local conservation authorities are a real pain but this one is an absolute nightmare to deal with. I think that I would rather walk away from "the deal of the century" rather than to deal with these people. I have not checked to see if any of these properties are regulated because the are basically crap, but if they are regulated (lowlands or part of a floodplain etc) run as fast as you can. You will regret your purchase if you have to deal with this conservation authority.
I think every situation is different. If the property is near or in flood plain and comes under the conservation regulation, it may still be good. If the high water mark for a regional storm is fourteen feet...well maybe it is good that no one is allowed to build. If the area is in marginal flood plain ie one or two feet the Conservation will likely require that any new building be built flood proof to that level.
The Conservation Areas are set up with a staff that deal with day to day stuff and a board usually made up of local political types. For building permits in flood plain you may have to go to the board. However, staff will generally tell you how they think it will go and if they are on your side It should go well.
All this may mean less interested bidders. 8) But check with the staff b4 you bid. Also there will be some legal stuff to go on title so you don't sue them if you do get flooded out. Another cost to you.
Sometimes when applying for building permits on waterfront properties, info from the municipality will go to the offices of local conservation authorities for comment.
I don,t know about the local authorities in this area . They all have the same mandate but perhaps the staffers there have a problem.
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26.2:
I had prepared a detailed reply to your posting but I deleted it before posting it All I will say is good luck to any winners.
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No surprises at bid openings. Only a small crowd mostly locals who were talkative after bid (it was friday afternoon)
while they waited for their refunds so I picked up more information then you normally do at bid openings.
1 cancelled (not redeemed so not sure why) although it was one of 2 occupied bid sites.
A couple no bids including the one I was not certain if the chicken coop was included and the other MarkyMark said was good for a cattlepond. If Randy or Bubbles (from trailer park boys) were around maybe they would have bid for the trailer.
Remainder almost all picked up by adjacent property owners which makes sense. As some of these checkerboard lots were built on before development controls slapped on, if you can add a 1 -2 acre adjoining lot for less then $10,000 even if it is environmentally controlled to an existing one you will do okay when you resell. Not a lot of bids which surprised me as I thought with the good weather people would take a country drive. Maybe people are geting smarter about what they are allowed to do.
Highest bids of entire day were for # 5 which is the large lot near water that MarkyMark classified as buildable (tableland) if zoning could be changed because the township ever takes over the private road. (People have apparently been waiting for 40 years.) It is to rear of some smaller lots but in conjunction with them would allow someone to build without worrying about setbacks and be right across the road from the common river access point and has an unopened road allowance to the rear possibily giving potential serverance potential in future.
MPAC data was incorrect because the metric and imperial measurements don't add up so actual size maybe over 2 acres. That was the wild card here but in either case the lot is usable if zoning issues can be resolved. The winner will need to do a survey to see exactly what he or she bought.
The two top bids were over $20,000 which is believable if someone was prepared to gamble and wait. The interesting point was the closeness of the two bids; $20,100 and $20,050 only $50 separated them.
Some one is feeling lucky and someone is really pissed off.
Dave2
Dave2
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Thanks for the info.
My first reaction on #5 is holy crap. My second reaction is I wonder who is feeling pissed off, the person who came in second or the winner?
I saw these lots and considered putting in a bid at or near the minimum on the one across from the water as a long term gamble but decided that it wasn't worth the money. I can maybe understand a neighbour bidding, but this lot only had one neighbouring property with a structure on it. I don't think that you would get 20K on MLS. Stunned, absolutely stunned.
Again, thanks for the info.
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No surprises at bid openings. Only a small crowd mostly locals who were talkative after bid (it was friday afternoon)
while they waited for their refunds so I picked up more information then you normally do at bid openings.
1 cancelled (not redeemed so not sure why) although it was one of 2 occupied bid sites.
A couple no bids including the one I was not certain if the chicken coop was included and the other MarkyMark said was good for a cattlepond. If Randy or Bubbles (from trailer park boys) were around maybe they would have bid for the trailer.
Remainder almost all picked up by adjacent property owners which makes sense. As some of these checkerboard lots were built on before development controls slapped on, if you can add a 1 -2 acre adjoining lot for less then $10,000 even if it is environmentally controlled to an existing one you will do okay when you resell. Not a lot of bids which surprised me as I thought with the good weather people would take a country drive. Maybe people are geting smarter about what they are allowed to do.
Highest bids of entire day were for # 5 which is the large lot near water that MarkyMark classified as buildable (tableland) if zoning could be changed because the township ever takes over the private road. (People have apparently been waiting for 40 years.) It is to rear of some smaller lots but in conjunction with them would allow someone to build without worrying about setbacks and be right across the road from the common river access point and has an unopened road allowance to the rear possibily giving potential serverance potential in future.
MPAC data was incorrect because the metric and imperial measurements don't add up so actual size maybe over 2 acres. That was the wild card here but in either case the lot is usable if zoning issues can be resolved. The winner will need to do a survey to see exactly what he or she bought.
The two top bids were over $20,000 which is believable if someone was prepared to gamble and wait. The interesting point was the closeness of the two bids; $20,100 and $20,050 only $50 separated them.
Some one is feeling lucky and someone is really pissed off.
Dave2
Dave2
Thanks Dave2
I expected those results as everything lead me to believe any bid would be in competition with the neighbour , ie.dead end.