Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Sheriff Sales / Foreclosures => General Discussion => Topic started by: SandraC on September 21, 2009, 11:24:55 PM
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Hi ~ Any info on the Marmora properties? Sandra
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Property # 3
Island view ct pin 401310040 is 3/4 of an acre lot not on thanet lake ..However it appears all the owners in the neighbourhood bought half the lake front as a group.125 K in june 09 .So I presume if you win this piece you would pay 5 k or less to be a co owner. Bizarrely enough they bought it all under their own names ( 50 or more on the title) instead of simply forming a corp or a land trust.
Now if you want to get rich,slip and fall at the lake ,you have 50 people to sue ;D
I suspect Thanet is motor free as Dickey beside it is larger and motor free....
Now if you had this... motor free has a new meaning http://www.hydroptere.com/galerie_videos_hydroptere.php?id=667#centre (http://www.hydroptere.com/galerie_videos_hydroptere.php?id=667#centre) give it a few seconds to load
59.116 MPH
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Those French Dudes are Nuts. There's also a bunch of equally crazy Aussies sponsored by MacQuarrie going for the same records. Do you sail as well - just had our last regatta of the season. If I'd known there was crew available here...
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Actually have a 31 ft express in Lake Ontario..great in the trent or georgian bay but boring as hell in Lake Ontario.
Im looking for a 35 to 38 ft sail boat for lake ontario , something I can more or less single hand . The deals in the US right now are insane..especially north of 40 but thats too large for what i want. I will be suprised if I dont have a sail by spring
Wife liked that fountain I posted on here ( could probably land that for under two fifty I would think) but the novelty would wear out real fast in something like that ( like the second trip) ..that is clearly a piece for the Med, Not lake ontario
What type of boat do you have??
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Maybe what you should do is change the crew often. You know the ones with the skimpy bathing suits. That way you will never get bored ;D
Of course if you get far enough out in the lake you can go "au naturel". I believe they call that a "bare"
boat charter :o
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Now I know for sure I am not in the same league as you pros.
My 16 ft canoe wouldn't be allowed into your boat club.
I will admit the wife and I christened it back in our younger days when we were a lot more agile.
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Now I know for sure I am not in the same league as you pros.
My 16 ft canoe wouldn't be allowed into your boat club.
I will admit the wife and I christened it back in our younger days when we were a lot more agile.
I thought at first that this was another spam posting from looking at the title.
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So did I..
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Sorry Rob....
Perhaps I should have re-phrased my title.
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SO now that we've totally hijacked the thread...
My boat is an older small POS... But I am also winning a load of regattas on it. I like that!
Its a 25' Catalina which I've built up a little with a VC-17 bottom and mylar sails. It is a rating beater, second fastest boat in our division. Helluva good time whatever the weather. When the wind pipes up we're burying rails without worrying about trashing th eboat, and when the water is flat its time to open the cooler.
I have to admit though that I am sorely tempted to get something like a J-29 or an Evelyn and put together a serious racing program up on G-Bay, with the odd trip to Chicago to do the CHi-Mac. For now though, beer can racing is plenty good enough.
If you are thinking of racing, take a look at the Pearson Flyer thats on EBay right now - I think its around $6500. ULDB, goes like hell, and not too many of them around here so no fair races. You should win every time. There are 2 of them in our marina and they can be hard to catch. No good for cruising though.
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I was so wrong - its only around $2K right now. Cheap, but needs work. Hire someone to core the decks its a messy job.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230378263535&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2&category=63731
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Was out that way this weekend so I popped around to a couple lots
pineview absolute waste of time as property in the subdivision cant even muster 18 on mls..and they are bigger and nicer IE MLS?: 2095756 .I don't see the point of even a min bid..however a few doors down there is a nice log house being built
Paradise rd Marmora .. More or less the same but at least its 6 acres so its worth more then the min but I don't think much more. Its 1200 ft from crow lake
14 thomas...screwed up and looked at 14 mcgill (wasnt planning to be out that way so forgot papers) If someone has pictures please post
tweed . I looked at the house on colbourne ...not my cup of tea
156 PARADISE LANE in tweed I missed too so would appreciate pictures and if anyone has details of the executions
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Was out that way this weekend so I popped around to a couple lots
pineview absolute waste of time as property in the subdivision cant even muster 18 on mls..and they are bigger and nicer IE MLS?: 2095756 .I don't see the point of even a min bid..however a few doors down there is a nice log house being built
Paradise rd Marmora .. More or less the same but at least its 6 acres so its worth more then the min but I don't think much more. Its 1200 ft from crow lake
14 thomas...screwed up and looked at 14 mcgill (wasnt planning to be out that way so forgot papers) If someone has pictures please post
tweed . I looked at the house on colbourne ...not my cup of tea
156 PARADISE LANE in tweed I missed too so would appreciate pictures and if anyone has details of the executions.Knee deep and rocky.15 feet down to river.16x20 shack w/loft.Not bothering to check execution.Have pics but can't post.
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I spoke to the municipality regarding this property. The helpful lady told me that it is apparently in really rough shape - sort of created the impression that this was general local knowledge. I got the impression that it is a knockdown. Maybe Markymark can confirm this if he was out there? I asked if it was condemmed or had work orders against it but she couldn't get the info because the building official was off and is off this week (deer hunting I presume). She did say that even though this is a private lane and not a public road, you could get a permit to build on the property. A quick MLS search shows two adjoining building lots for sale in the mid 30k range listed for several months (longer if relisted). I don't know, but I'm guessing you could buy one of these in the mid 20's or maybe less. With a reserve at over 10k the margin is pretty slim in my view.
The lady was very clear that there is no permit available for the 50 acres and that it is not buildable. I had no interest in the property in town or the really small lot.
I think that I saved myself a trip out there.
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just talked to the township and 14 thomas has been redeemed. she also said there is one more that is going to be redeemed but couldn't say until it actually has. FYI
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I also spoke with the lady. Very nice and helpful. Property one (Paradise Road) is expected to be redeemed on Friday.
According to her, there is/are already tenders in on #3 (Island View). She told me that last year, as she recalls, a property went on Thanet Lake in the teens. I find that a bit hard to believe since a nice lot with waterview (this one does not) is listed on MLS in the very low 20's. There is also a brand new cottage for sale that "needs finishing" for the low 100k mark.
I saw these properties and took photos. I tried posting but the files are too big. Next time I'll shoot the pics in lower resolution.
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124114104003072 MLS is 29 K asking so you know 22 to 24 will take it ..It has the access already. Unfortunately with the way they have bought all the common land without a corp, The legals for the transfer will be substantially above normal as it looks like you will have to be registered on about ten pieces. Someone wasn't thinking.
The tax sale piece may not have this access and will have to buy it I think and hopefully they are reasonable but if the old owner has to sell you his portion of the common land..ouch..
definitely check the access as it may have been deeded in the original sale and all the common land stuff doesn't matter
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I found a listing last week for 23k but can't seem to find it now. There was also an older cottage built on piers that was on Kijiji on a backlot in the 50's that has been removed - probably sold.
PFM is right on about the access. There may be none unless you buy your way in. This would require more than simply filing a transfer.
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have you guys bid on any of these marmora properties?
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Property one redeemed a.m. October 16.
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I have no immediate interest but has anyone pulled the title on the Tanet Lake property. If it indicates part ownership on Block X then if you win the tax sale you automatically get your name on the deed of the waterfront block. Won a back lot last year in a similar situation and it was no problem but the lake front block was only split 6 ways with the township one of the owners.
I am assuming that the guy that is losing his property has already paid the $5000 back when the lots were created. Comments????
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Wolfpack:
I know you like to be closer to your friends (relatives??) in Alqonquin Park but I think on this one I will pass. Ever since I got my ass kicked the last time around for moose pasture (they even beat up Bigfoot) I figure that I will pass on Lake township on Monday. Main reason is that there is a whole bunch of properties coming up on the North Shore of Rice Lake and there is a potentially interesting lot in Campbelford. (two different tax sales)
I am going to start a new thread to give a proper heads up.
Dave2
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Does anybody have the results?
Thanks.
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Does anybody have the results?
Thanks.
I should learn when I say I am going to do something that I should check with the boss first. She decided at the last minute to help our church group close up a camp on Crowe lake next to Marmora so I found myself heading to Marmora at the last minute. Decided on a whim to put in a bid on the Thanet lake interior lot. Ran into a very interesting problem on my bid because the town apparently collated my bidders package incorrectly.
By way of background the town provided two preprinted bidders packages with a separate one for each lot to be bid. I ordered and obtained the one for Thanet Lake (lot 3)
First the bids: Lots 1 and 4 redeemed.
Lot 2: about 4-5 bids with no real enthusiam. Winning bid from memory was $6,600 with second $5,200.
Lot 3 (Thanet Lake) Winning bid $8,800 other then mine with second about $1,000 below it. about 1/2 dozen bids.
I would have won Thanet lake but the town put the following package together.
a) Designated envelope with preprinted bid on it for lot 3
b) Bid summary including zoning etc for lot 3
c) Area and subdivision maps for lot 3
d) Preprinted form 7 for lot 2 which is the other one that I did not want.
I did not catch the error and as a result I submitted a bid in envelope 3 with a mistaken bid for lot 2
on form 7 which I did not want and as a result we had a first class mess. Fortunately I was there
and was able to show the town their error. Mine was the winning bid on lot 2 as well.
Before I tell everyone what happened I ask the question. What would you do.?
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Depending on the amount of your bid, I would probably scream bloody murder and insist that I had won Thanet Lake. Now if your bid was 20k or so, I would argue that the bid was a nullity and should not count. Under no circumstances would I want the other lot.
So, what happened?
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Depending on the amount of your bid, I would probably scream bloody murder and insist that I had won Thanet Lake. Now if your bid was 20k or so, I would argue that the bid was a nullity and should not count. Under no circumstances would I want the other lot.
So, what happened?
Netpred: I always cut my deposit in advance before I decide what I will bid. Therefore my deposit
is usually (well) over the 20% minimum. In this case my deposit was $2,500 so you can do the math
as to my maximum. I am not in the business of subsidizing municipalities so to get a property arguably worth over $24,000 I am not going to bid more then half.
I will wait and see any other responses before I let the cat out of the bag.
Dave
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In this case Dave was willing to withdraw his bid, not really caring if he got the property or not. This provided an easy way out for the Twp., they could simply reject his bid on the basis of being on the wrong form, without objection. However, I agree, Dave could have screamed that he was the winning bid, and perhaps the Twp would have to agree.
I got the Pineview lot (for $6250.00); I already own the lot beside it having got it in a tax sale many years ago. I now have 4 acres here. This is a sleeper subdivision, really undervalued. It comes with a mile of joint ownership shoreline on a wide part of the Crowe River, which has a really interesting rapids and waterfall feature just downstream which is all located in Callaghans Rapids Conservation Area, which the subdivision backs onto. There is a boat ramp and you can boat into Marmora. The landscape is also a unique limestone alvar terrain with interesting physical and flora features.
As for the deposit strategy, I usually do the same, pick my max bid and then get a deposit to match; then decide later on my bid amount. However, I almost always then bid my maximum, so I guess, what is the point of that strategy. Besides, if you have a deposit greater than 20%, you will lose out if you decide to 'sell' your bid to the higher tenderer (where there is a big spread), or if you are high and decide to walk and 'buy' the second bid. So, I say to all bidders, never deposit more than 20%.
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If you have the piece beside..you essentially have your own little circle there. At that price you cant go wrong..Any idea what the log cabin down the street is going to cost when done??
By the way..the terrain is really really nice there..amazing difference from there to just a few miles away
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Wow Dave2...predicament galore!!
I had to dig my paperwork out of the recycling bin for that one (I did not bid on it..too far away)...
I picked up my paperwork from the township office when I was out there, but was thrown off by the 'Propery #1', 'Property # 2' labels (used to full descriptions)...so I double checked all the forms (knowing that human error could screw this up)...
I have a 'good' package...meaning that all the roll # etc match...too bad you didn't get mine! :(
What would I do? Check my paperwork next time....and consult a lawyer... but depending on your lawyer..you may be SOL...you didn't hand in the proper paperwork...and it may be hard to prove you got the 'wrong' paperwork from the township...
Sorry man...just my opinion...
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In this case Dave was willing to withdraw his bid, not really caring if he got the property or not. This provided an easy way out for the Twp., they could simply reject his bid on the basis of being on the wrong form, without objection. However, I agree, Dave could have screamed that he was the winning bid, and perhaps the Twp would have to agree.
I got the Pineview lot (for $6250.00); I already own the lot beside it having got it in a tax sale many years ago. I now have 4 acres here. This is a sleeper subdivision, really undervalued. It comes with a mile of joint ownership shoreline on a wide part of the Crowe River, which has a really interesting rapids and waterfall feature just downstream which is all located in Callaghans Rapids Conservation Area, which the subdivision backs onto. There is a boat ramp and you can boat into Marmora. The landscape is also a unique limestone alvar terrain with interesting physical and flora features.
As for the deposit strategy, I usually do the same, pick my max bid and then get a deposit to match; then decide later on my bid amount. However, I almost always then bid my maximum, so I guess, what is the point of that strategy. Besides, if you have a deposit greater than 20%, you will lose out if you decide to 'sell' your bid to the higher tenderer (where there is a big spread), or if you are high and decide to walk and 'buy' the second bid. So, I say to all bidders, never deposit more than 20%.
To the boards members listen to guys like this he has been a lot more active then then people like my self for a lot longer. Some of the so called Newbees and lurkers have a lot more knowlege then you realize. That is one of the benefits you get by being at bid openings.
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In this case Dave was willing to withdraw his bid, not really caring if he got the property or not. This provided an easy way out for the Twp., they could simply reject his bid on the basis of being on the wrong form, without objection. However, I agree, Dave could have screamed that he was the winning bid, and perhaps the Twp would have to agree.
As a general observation I have never seen a lawyer move so fast in my life. The township lawyer was there 10 minutes after the bids closed and we were into face to face negotiations within a half an hour.
The fundamental problem I faced was "lets call a spade a spade" my own stupidity. I did not expect that the township would make an honest error in collating the documents and I hope some members of this board learn from my mistake. (CHECK YOUR DOCUMENTS CAREFULLY). Waltersland says he has been involved in hundreds of tax sale bids and never seen this problem before and because of something else he said I believe him and his experience.
The reasons I did not scream in public were the following:
a) To play with a legal lawsuit I believe I would have to come up with all the money on the bid not just the deposit. Not having local knowledge I was not interested in property 2 which is a great piece of property for poison ivy and has a difficult construction terrain. Having stupidly signed the bid document I felt my risks of winning property 2 were greater then winning the property I wanted.
b) I also followed a unique philosophy I have when I am in a potential hole. This is when you are in a hole the first rule is to "stop digging". I did not feel that I wanted to put additional funds at risk to prove a point without profit.
c) The key issue here is the potential upside and maybe I should defer to someone who I understand is the winner about what I may have lost if he is willing to go public.. My belief for an interior lot I was looking at a market value arguably at best in excess of $24,000. Assessed value was less then half that. In this specific case I did not believe it was worth the extra costs and risk for this updside. On other properties I would played it very different.
d) For a legal fight I am looking at a cost of probably at least $10,000 plus and maybe a lot more against an organization that is tax payer funded. Everyone thinks the township is the only player in this one. I disagree. What about the other bidders?
e) Finally there a couple of things that are known only to the principals. Lets use the hockey trade term "future considerations"
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As for the deposit strategy, I usually do the same, pick my max bid and then get a deposit to match; then decide later on my bid amount. However, I almost always then bid my maximum, so I guess, what is the point of that strategy. Besides, if you have a deposit greater than 20%, you will lose out if you decide to 'sell' your bid to the higher tenderer (where there is a big spread), or if you are high and decide to walk and 'buy' the second bid. So, I say to all bidders, never deposit more than 20%.
Wow. Are bids traded often? For example the person who won the Powassan bid for 55,000 could buy [should have bought] the second bid 22,266 for the cost of his deposit and then some for the bother. Is the township OK with these transactions?
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Wow. Are bids traded often? For example the person who won the Powassan bid for 55,000 could buy [should have bought] the second bid 22,266 for the cost of his deposit and then some for the bother. Is the township OK with these transactions?
The towns get to keep the initial deposit that is forfeit but lose in the year. The towns don't like the potential for hassles as there is a possibility of problems if the second screws the first ( which they should do to teach them a lesson) Additionally the process turns to a joke if you let morons bid super high without having to actually pay ....so towns don't like it.
The big problem is that you are rewarding the overbidder and removing any risk he has..IE if he knows you will whore out your position, why would he not simply make insanely high bids everytime to ensure he wins ..then simply buy the second position .
Sort of like taking a fifty from a rapist afterwards ...now you are just a whore
If you whore yourself out and sell your second position..get used to it as you will always be second . As far as I am concerned make the high bidder pay the price..he/she just outbid you by a large amount..let him lose the money and that will get him out of the taxgame..If you let him keep his money he will use it to beat you on the next piece.
People complain about high prices now. start selling your second positions and we might as well go full retail..
He/she has screwed you out of land by bidding high..make them pay the price..get them out of the tax game..
This is war and you are simply giving back the bullets they used to beat you with so they can reuse them at the next battle
(Im sure Sun Tzu said something about this ..Oh yes here it is..The Art of War Section III rule 21 .Sun Tzu said ..when engaging the enemy..dont be a idiot and give him back his bullets for then you shall be both stupid and a whore and all future battles shall be lost..) ;D
If they winner realizes that they overbid they may walk..as a second in this matter you are in a better position to buy them out of first ...If you think its worth it.offer to buy out their deposit if they walk..so in Powasson . the second could have offered the first 11k to walk and had the land for 33.. Always Remember the wife factor..the winner has a wife screaming that "you just paid more then double what anyone else offered"..thats severe pressure as it never goes away. Even if you sell the land for 100 K the wife will still rag about you only made 45 , not 75
No matter what land I bought..I might be looking for an exit if I more then doubled the next closest bid as I clearly have overpaid and the gun is now pointed at my head . I would be looking to get out for little more then a steak dinner and a beer unless I was a end user or very very sure of its true value.
All that said ..I did GIVE the people my second once. They were adjacent owners and a nice couple..They bid almost market and were not pro-vultures like us . They just wanted a bigger lot for themselves. I had been chatting with them at the opening and after they won ,I approached them and explained how it worked. I GAVE ( yes GAVE) them my bid and it saved them about 30K but cost me nothing.
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To Pfm1011; That log house will be megabucks, that's all I can say, but it certainly shows faith in the subdivision. As for bid selling, read on:
To`Dave2; I think you did the most reasonable thing, fighting for your lot may not have been worth the aggravation. In this case, youy would not have got 'my' lot because I wouldn't have let it happen. I would have argued for disqualification based on being in the wrong envelope, and that would almost certainly stick. But for an initial minute there, Dave2, I thought I was going to be selling my bid to you.
To 26.2: Yes, yes and yes. Bids are traded by those who are aware of, and comfortable with the strategy. However, there is no reason not to be comfortable with it. I have never encountered resistance from a municipality. The municipalities do like it, they get to keep the high deposit. I have made lots of $$ coming in a distant second, and selling my bid to the high. I have also bought the second bid where I've found myself way overbidding. The formula is always the same, the sale price is half the money on the table, i.e. half of the first bid minus the second bid less the first deposit. That is why under the rules, there are only two bidders of status, otherwise this bid selling thing could cascade all the way down the line to the lowest bidder, with the original land owner getting only the lowest bid value and the municipality being the big winner. I often do the bid sell/trade in front of the clerk or treasurer, advising them in advance of the transaction that 'I'm going to make them some money'. Recall that the name on the form is anything you want, sufficient to identify the bid as yours. I know bidders that have used their cat and dog's name, just for anonymity. The first and second bidders might well have been a bidding team right from the outset, or even one in the same person, what does it matter? This is a little built-in tax sale perk that encourages high bids, benefiting the original owners overall, and also yields a bit of cash for municipalities now and then. So, to all you bidders out there, I also urge you to include your telephone number under your name. You might be hearing from me in an upcoming sale. Or I might hear from you.
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Wow. Are bids traded often? For example the person who won the Powassan bid for 55,000 could buy [should have bought] the second bid 22,266 for the cost of his deposit and then some for the bother. Is the township OK with these transactions?
The towns get to keep the initial deposit that is forfeit but lose in the year. The towns don't like the potential for hassles as there is a possibility of problems if the second screws the first ( which they should do to teach them a lesson) Additionally the process turns to a joke if you let morons bid super high without having to actually pay ....so towns don't like it.
The big problem is that you are rewarding the overbidder and removing any risk he has..IE if he knows you will whore out your position, why would he not simply make insanely high bids everytime to ensure he wins ..then simply buy the second position .
Sort of like taking a fifty from a rapist afterwards ...now you are just a whore
If you whore yourself out and sell your second position..get used to it as you will always be second . As far as I am concerned make the high bidder pay the price..he/she just outbid you by a large amount..let him lose the money and that will get him out of the taxgame..If you let him keep his money he will use it to beat you on the next piece.
People complain about high prices now. start selling your second positions and we might as well go full retail..
He/she has screwed you out of land by bidding high..make them pay the price..get them out of the tax game..
This is war and you are simply giving back the bullets they used to beat you with so they can reuse them at the next battle
(Im sure Sun Tzu said something about this ..Oh yes here it is..The Art of War Section III rule 21 .Sun Tzu said ..when engaging the enemy..dont be a idiot and give him back his bullets for then you shall be both stupid and a whore and all future battles shall be lost..) ;D
If they winner realizes that they overbid they may walk..as a second in this matter you are in a better position to buy them out of first ...If you think its worth it.offer to buy out their deposit if they walk..so in Powasson . the second could have offered the first 11k to walk and had the land for 33.. Always Remember the wife factor..the winner has a wife screaming that "you just paid more then double what anyone else offered"..thats severe pressure as it never goes away. Even if you sell the land for 100 K the wife will still rag about you only made 45 , not 75
No matter what land I bought..I might be looking for an exit if I more then doubled the next closest bid as I clearly have overpaid and the gun is now pointed at my head . I would be looking to get out for little more then a steak dinner and a beer unless I was a end user or very very sure of its true value.
All that said ..I did GIVE the people my second once. They were adjacent owners and a nice couple..They bid almost market and were not pro-vultures like us . They just wanted a bigger lot for themselves. I had been chatting with them at the opening and after they won ,I approached them and explained how it worked. I GAVE ( yes GAVE) them my bid and it saved them about 30K but cost me nothing.
Well explained,and to add Don't over bid by greed or mistake as it may burn you.1 Karma to you.