What to do - Version 2 ????

[Dave2]

Like many of the posters and hangers on on this board we have a partner who questions why the heck are we wasting our time?  Sometimes the language is a little stronger. 

I have also taken her to a bidders meeting when the bids are opened and her attitude changed a little (at least for 10 minutes)when it seemed we were actually going to win one.  (Last bid to be opened was the winning bid, we were second).   

Like most people around here hopefully we occasionally win something.  To try and bribe my significant other I have always had the policy to make her coowner on any property we win.  On one property I even made her sole owner.  As a result usually she tolerates my foibles especially when I suggest we drive to the end of the world to look at what turns out to be moose pasture or swamp. 

Once I even listened to her when she suggested a bid price above what I was going to originally bid
which I dutifully followed and son of a gun if we didn't win it by less then $100.  Needless to say that worked for at least a day.   

The problem I now face is that we had the fortune to win something earlier this year and are now in the process of discovering of what we won.  I expected to flip it and have been busy determining resale pricing etc.  The problem I have faced is that every time I do further investigation I find out some new about the property.  Unlike most cases it not a tire dump nor do I own the ministry of finance a fortune.

We have some buildings on it that I didn't even know I had (nor did anyone else for that matter) and to make it more interesting It looks like they are not in that bad shape.  As a result my boss has put her foot down and says I cannot sell it without her okay which she has the legal right to do as coowner.  She is even making noises that we may become landowners.

As my dreams of finally making some money from a tax sale evaporate like the morning mist I was wondering if anyone knew how to solve this problem.

Dave2

[netpred]

New wife!!!

Seriously, congrats on the buy. Better even to get a good surprise. Maybe it's a good idea to hold onto it for a while. She did make some good calls in the past.

[markymark]

Tarp the roof and board em up, or does the boss want to move in,rent?
If you sell it you may have extra left over for possibly a larger diamond???
Congrats on your luck.

[Pfm1011]

surprise buildings...what  a bonus... you can now forget about setbacks or septic approvals or zoning..you have a free pass..not to mention your land just went up substantially

As per the wife..convince her to let you list it for sale, but agree you wont sell unless she approves.  A property can spend a year on MLS so the quicker the better.  List at a somewhat silly price.  (obviously dont let the agent know you are fishing as he/she wont work hard to move it) Just because you list a house,  you are under no obligation to sell until you sign the deal back

When you finally have an offer in your hands is when you can have the discussion of "should we sell"   Until you have a firm offer , there is no reason to discuss sale. When she is staring at cash in hand or cottage that is miles away..she will take the cash and build what she wants closer

[Dave2]

New Wife:   

In my (limited as I have been domesticated now almost for 35 years) experience there are two types of women.  those that help you make the money and those that help you spent it.  Those that help you spend it are only around for as long as you have some.

The problem I have is that when she says no she means it and after almost thirty five years I shoud know enough to listen.   This is my problem.

[Dave2]

does the boss want to move in,?

Guess

I should have been smarter.  One property I bought earlier this year I made her sole owner.  When she started making comments about "her" property I should have been forwarned that history might repeat itself. 

She is not a diamond lady.  On the other hand I may have to contact one of whom I always figured was the smarter members of this board "worldjohn" and ask him if I can get some marble from his quarry he bought last year .  Maybe a marble kitchen countertop may work.   

That's the key to this business.  Disregarding what you pay for it seeing value in a property when no one else does. 

It looks like I am going to be more limited in my tax sale property purchase options for a while while I sort this baby out.

[Frank]

New Wife:  

In my (limited as I have been domesticated now almost for 35 years) experience there are two types of women.  those that help you make the money and those that help you spent it.  Those that help you spend it are only around for as long as you have some.

The problem I have is that when she says no she means it and after almost thirty five years I shoud know enough to listen.   This is my problem.

Maybe I need to have a man to man talk, with your wife.   Is she Hungarian by any chance, I have lots of experience with those ones... they can see money behind a rock, and then keep it there indefinitely.  I've been with mine for 32 years, but it sure seems like at least 35.

[Dave2]

Maybe I need to have a man to man talk, with your wife.   Is she Hungarian by any chance, I have lots of experience with those ones... they can see money behind a rock, and then keep it there indefinitely.  I've been with mine for 32 years, but it sure seems like at least 35.

Sorry Frank but in a man to man talk with my wife I will bet on her.  She is even worse then a Hungarian; a Finn from Finland.  I first found out how persuasive she can be a long time ago when I took my time saying I wanted to marry her.  I ended up getting bitten by a poisonous snake in Finland no less (From Wikitravel) (No apples involved but we were picking ligonberries)

"There's only one type of poisonous snake in Finland, the European adder (kyy or kyyk??rme), which has a distinct zig-zag type of figure on its back, altough some individuals are almost completely black. "
I decided that maybe marriage wasn't that bad idea thereafter given the alternative.  

[speedfreeksteve]

This brings up two questions in my mind.. why does she want to keep it, and why do you want to sell?

Is this a property she has big plans for person use, or she hopes to just sit on it and sell? Do you both want to sell, but she wants to first upgrade it to a 10 bedroom estate before selling?

With tax sales I've run into people that didn't even know why they were buying something in the first place other than the fact that they just wanted to... which is fine.. but probably not the ideal frame of mind if the goal is simply to make money.

What I would do if I were you was explain the "opportunity cost" of sitting on the property vs. cashing out now and looking for the next investment to come along. Maybe the numbers will add up in your favour.. or maybe not.. but at least you might be able to come to an agreement on something.

[worldjohn]

Thanks for the complement Dave.  I wish I could help but some of you guys have been married longer than I've been alive. take their advice it sounds good.  I have no experience with marriage and never plan to have that experience.  I start to get nervous after living with a woman for 3 years knowing ontario law states she now my wife so I move on just before that.  I've worked too hard for my meager savings to give up half of it and would rather be single. Honestly I really dont know how you guys can do it and be with someone that long. But I do admire it in some ways, if it makes u happy. but for me it would feel like being forced to eat the same meal for the rest of my life.
so sorry I cant help with advice, but I can offer u as much marble as your truck can carry

[Pfm1011]

 I've worked too hard for my meager savings to give up half of it and would rather be single. Honestly I really dont know how you guys can do it and be with someone that long. But I do admire it in some ways, if it makes u happy. but for me it would feel like being forced to eat the same meal for the rest of my life.

Just to ruin your day...Its one year ..Ouch...

Word of advice..when you meet the right woman..she is not going to drain your meager savings..she will be a partner and help you succeed both economically and mentally..  Should you ever meet the "right girl", you will regret letting her getaway for the rest of your life.. well at least until a better "right girl " comes along

If you worry that much about money..you will never be happy and never be rich as you must risk some to make some

[Dave2]

Frank/Speed / PFM / WorldJohn:

Thanks for the kind words and associated advice.  Fundamentally I think the discussion between myself and my wife revolves around a rather common theme on these posts "What is a property really worth and more importantly what can you realistically sell it for without waiting 20 years."

My wife is saying in effect don't undervalue the property and take the needed time to properly assess  it.   If we miss the last of this year's selling season so be it.  We have the financial horsepower to do the job right and get proper return.  As my partner she wants to have a proper opportunity to examine it and then make up her own mind.

The property was bought for its underlying  land value which is sound.  The potential bonus is the additional structures and associated infrastructure.  Assessing their true worth may take a little time and require some incremental investment.  One example will show the complexities involved.
The first value of existing infrastructure is that it usually means you can build.  That in itself is a potentially significant value.  You may also "repair it" without a building permit in many cases depending on the severity of the repairs. 

a)  The need for a properly authorized and constructed septic bed is a fact of life today for most rural and vacation properties in Ontario.  In cases like this one of the disadvantages of a tax sale; lack of paper records comes into play.

b) Not every participant in this board has experience with georgian bay islands but it is safe to say that granite rock is not far away from the surface in most cases. 

c) For the last 20 plus years the health department had had to approve them.Thus the first question we face is are they approved.

d) Even if approved what shape are they in is an important consideration. This can only be determined by digging up the bed and examining it. 

Finally how much will this add to the value.

when you didn't think you had one in the first place
looking into it isn't all bad,

[Frank]

Frank/Speed / PFM / WorldJohn:

Thanks for the kind words and associated advice.  Fundamentally I think the discussion between myself and my wife revolves around a rather common theme on these posts "What is a property really worth and more importantly what can you realistically sell it for without waiting 20 years."

My wife is saying in effect don't undervalue the property and take the needed time to properly assess  it.   If we miss the last of this year's selling season so be it.  We have the financial horsepower to do the job right and get proper return.  As my partner she wants to have a proper opportunity to examine it and then make up her own mind.

The property was bought for its underlying  land value which is sound.  The potential bonus is the additional structures and associated infrastructure.  Assessing their true worth may take a little time and require some incremental investment.  One example will show the complexities involved.
The first value of existing infrastructure is that it usually means you can build.  That in itself is a potentially significant value.  You may also "repair it" without a building permit in many cases depending on the severity of the repairs. 

a)  The need for a properly authorized and constructed septic bed is a fact of life today for most rural and vacation properties in Ontario.  In cases like this one of the disadvantages of a tax sale; lack of paper records comes into play.

b) Not every participant in this board has experience with georgian bay islands but it is safe to say that granite rock is not far away from the surface in most cases. 

c) For the last 20 plus years the health department had had to approve them.Thus the first question we face is are they approved.

d) Even if approved what shape are they in is an important consideration. This can only be determined by digging up the bed and examining it. 

Finally how much will this add to the value.

when you didn't think you had one in the first place
looking into it isn't all bad,

Funny how things work out.  That's the one that you were trying to get me to bid on...and I only wish I had the time to go toe to toe with you on it.  Congrats on a property well purchased.  Do take your time, and if you haven't done it yet, then get a boat and make the trip to see it for yourself.  You're right about the septics, but that can be remedied if need be.   Take your time on it, this may not be the best economy to be putting it out in anyways.         

[Pfm1011]

I think you are overthinking this..Just sell it to me for 85 K and move on

Seriously though you are overthinking..You have won the lottery, cash in the ticket and move on.  I would simply look for the pitbull real estate agent and get it moved .


 If you want maximum return and dont mind the wait that piece may be Sothebys or a Chestnut Park piece . ( both are disgusting whores but if you are the seller , they would be your whores) They may get maximum dollars but you will have to wait for the right victim for them to bleed dry  and you will have to deal with the brown nosing pitbulls for at least a year .  I find listing with these people immediately puts a "ripoff..suckers wanted" flag on the piece and I wont go near anything they list but your wife may only give you peace if you list with a pitbull like that.   Sothebys is getting alot of listings but Im not sure if they are actually moving anything.

Maybe talk to Rolstons out of Manitoulin or Sutton out of the Sault, I have seen Rolston colist with sothebys

I would not fix it up to sell it, as any buyer will want to do their own design and improvements. Fix it up to for yourself but not for others. This piece will take 6 months or a year to move..

I would quit overthinking..simply get it out and get it sold..You are looking at a extremely nice profit, get it sold and use the money to make more money or get something that is not 8 hours from home.

One warning..dont buy all the smoke the agents will blow up you..They will tell you wonderful stories of what its worth..Near Parry sound there is Sans Souci islands.  All the agent  bs about what they are worth ,unfortunately nothing has sold for over two years . So you have these million dollar listings collecting dust and never selling as they arent worth a fraction of the asks.

Talk to one or two local agents and then the sothebys whores  but I would think put it out at 389.( accept 250) . . Its stupidly high because of location but anyone interested will make an offer..Leave it at that price for for a year and see what happens. If you get any offer on the piece, wrestle every penny out of them but dont let them walk as the location means buyers are very  few and far between.

[Dave2]

Funny how things work out.  That's the one that you were trying to get me to bid on...and I only wish I had the time to go toe to toe with you on it.  Congrats on a property well purchased.  Do take your time, and if you haven't done it yet, then get a boat and make the trip to see it for yourself.  You're right about the septics, but that can be remedied if need be.   Take your time on it, this may not be the best economy to be putting it out in anyways.         
[/quote]

Frank / PFM.  If anyone is owed a favour by this board it is you two for all the free advice you give.  There are others as well but certainly you both standout.  While I will obviously look after myself first; if I see one that might be worthwhile and I don't intend to bid on it I will be happy to pass on the tip; via private message of course. 

Dave2