Now I have evidence that the professionals are snooping around

[netpred]

Frank:

You are still alive? If yes, too bad for novices like me. Based on Dave2's posts. I figured that a really big 'gator got you.

Were you the winner on McDougall? Looked like a nice property if it did not redeem. I would have have given 12 to 1 odds on that one too.

McDougall was redeemed this morning by the old owner....tax deed would have been registered tomorrow...delay getting approvals from Ministry of Northern Mines (aka...Ministry of takes a long time)....fogedaboudit.   

My condolences.

[Dave2]

That hurts.  That looked like a good one.

I thought the Ministry of Northern Affairs approval only applied North of French River particularly  after mining claim act was changed.  Obviously I was wrong too.  Anyone know how far south they go?

[Dave2]

Oh oh.

I think that I might be smelling a dog here. Did we finalize our bet or can I still get out?  

Okay:

We don't have a lot of time and I will use this situation as a possible lesson that the devil is in the details.

First rule of tax sales is there is a reason it is going to tax sale.  If a property is perfect it very rarely gets to final tax sale even if there are some last minute redemptions that make us all mad ( I would use stronger language but not on a family board.)

In this case the detail that is interesting is with OTS Jeff's website posting. ([
color=maroon]It is a feature property) ontariotaxsales.ca/nc/upcoming-tax-sales/municipality/TSuid/515/pBack/67/stype/featured/muid/47.html[/color]
Photos etc. look yummy until you read the words carefully.  Quoting directly from Jeff's website:

Is there a house or cottage on the property? no

Is there some other structure on the property?  Yes attached two car garageThat's funny that's not what the picture says.  There are two possible situations

a) There is a misprint caused by the municipality or by one of Jeff's people. (He gets his information from the municipality and like an internet service provider has limited responsibility for its content.)

b) Or much more seriously there is a lot line problem.  Do they occur? Yes in the country I have one right now on a property I purchased at a tax sale but it is my neighbours not mine because he decided to save money by not having a proper survey done.) We talk this afterrnoon about what is called in severence terms a "lot line adjustment"

Think about it if you discovered that a screwup was made and in effect your neighbour owned part of your house would you fight for it.   We all would.  Its is called adverse possession or more commonly a quit claim.  

So if you win the tax sale you may have bought yourself a garage and heck of a big legal fight because adverse possession claims of adjoing property owners are one of the few that survive a tax sale.  Gee I wonder if this is the reason it is going to tax sale in the first place.?

Big difference in value of the property too.  

Now you have a decision to make like we all do?  Bid or not bid and how much?  If you think the house is part of the package/?  we are talking at least 5 figures for the deposit alone?.  Do you have the "COJONES" as the spanish say to face a loss like that if you make a mistake.  Some of you are lucky you don't have a boss like me.  

On the other side of the coin it creates opportunities.  I have made some interesting buys in cases like this.

This is the part of the business that people like Tri Target don't talk about.  This background is behind the exchange between Netpred and myself earlier on these postings.  

Sometimes in  this business you have to make a decision to walk away.  I of course  already have my reward of some cold ones in the company of a smart ______ (fill in your own blanks) person on a hot July day.  

Do I quit while I am ahead or get serious??? Decisions Decisions? We will see later this week

[g2020]

Dave, if you order the package for comparison you will see that it correctly states that there is a house on the property.

[Dave2]

Dave, if you order the package for comparison you will see that it correctly states that there is a house on the property.

Not disagreeing with you thats an assessment everyone must make pro or con.

So are you volunteering to make a phone call? (see my condition 2) earlier?

We still need an arbitrator and cold beer tastes good in July  

Especially when Netpred is buying?

[g2020]

Dave's "condition 2" is specious. I suspect it was just offered in good humour but the idea of notifying an owner that the the tax sale redemption date has been extended, while pretending to be a municipal official is not only despicable, but likely to backfire. A tax deed, once registered, is final and binding and cannot be contested for any reason, except fraud! A tax deed obtained obtained using Dave's methodology could well be worthless - maybe even cost someone his island if substantial damages were awarded. I know, I know, Dave was just joking but it just goes to show that to bid on a tax sale you have to really know what you are doing, and the hidden consequences. Anyone bidding less than $72,125.00, (1/2 the assessed value), on this property is just wasting their time and money. Not 1 in 100 of you will still be bidding tax sales 5 years from now because you have not figured out the 3 keys to success. Firstly you have to do a fairly extensive amount of research, secondly you have to bid a fair price (not necessarily high, just fair), and thirdly you have to treat the former owners more than fairly. But maybe I am just trying to throw everybody off and lots of low ball bids and cheating is the real way to make big bucks on tax sales. Lots of luck.

[Dave2]

G2020:

Obviously although we all get frustrated when things redeem but its part of the game. 

Yes my suggestion was in jest, but is not relevant in this case anyways because the property did redeem and Netpred will be downing some cold ones  and having a good time (at my expense.)

Just wish I had your smarts to know how to find the ones that don't redeem.

That is why we wait until the last minute and should spend more time at the beach.

Speaking of research just a note on the upcoming one in Trent Hills.  There were some errors in the original package and they have been corrected.  For those that picked up the package early make sure you have the right package.

Dave2

[shah]

Cramahe is redeemed finally. You guys are great. How did you predict it !!!

[Dave2]

Cramahe is redeemed finally. You guys are great. How did you predict it !!!

Obviously not me?  (Netpred and Frank among others are the smart ones.)  Hoping as Netpred enjoys his winnings I might get an insight.

Onto the next one.

[netpred]

Cramahe is redeemed finally. You guys are great. How did you predict it !!!

This one was easy - occupied and very well maintained. Do a drive by and you can tell well over 90% of the time. This one is not the sort of property that you get at a tax sale. The typical tax sale house was the one last year in Trenton. Uninhabited with 4 feet of water in the basement. Rotting drywall and mould. If you ever win a lot with a building on it, chances are good that the building is a knock down or requires extensive remedial work if it can be saved. In most cases, for derelict buildings, I think that the smart bid is on land value only (of course it can cost from 5k to 10k to demolish a building.

[Dave2]

Cramahe is redeemed finally. You guys are great. How did you predict it !!!

 In most cases, for derelict buildings, I think that the smart bid is on land value only (of course it can cost from 5k to 10k to demolish a building.

Depending where it is and proximity to neighbours (like in the country) You can always see if the local fire department wants to burn it for practice to avoid demolition costs