A quick question requires quick response - appreciated

[Jayz]

It's not tax sale related but I hope members here can give me some quick mind-openings.

A property which I have interest on is up for POS. The bank's (the first mortgagee) lawyer wants me to lift the "notice"/lien I put on the property in order to close the deal (with fight-worthy balance). I wanted to negotiate with the bank to get my interest back before I can agree to lift the lien. My lawyer suggested otherwise - I have to lift the "notice" or they will go to court to have it lifted. I am kinda frustrated with this lawyer - he suggested me let go several months ago when the "owner" tried to sell the property "privately" at a price $100k lower than the price it gets sold now under POS. I asked what's my best interest. The answer, as always, is I do what you tell me to do! Are lawyers supposed to be like this?

Any suggestions?

[ErnestBidder]

  As far as I know, a lein is somewhat similar to a second mortgage; if the first mortgagor(?) takes it pos, the leins/other mortgages are wiped out, so they don't have to "negotiate" with you. Sounds fishy to me, if they're trying to get you to step back or sign away your rights, as they don't have to. Something's up! I'd get another lawyer ASAP. If you owned a second mortgage on the property, your only option to protect your interest, would be to buy the first mortgage that is in default, and I don't know if they can refuse to sell it to you. New lawyer.

[Pfm1011]

Hello Everyone ( yes........the long winded idiot is back ...)

If I remember correctly, you didn't register a mortgage at the time of the business loan ( ex business  partner/s)  and recently registered this notice .  Can you even prove the debt????cashed checks, any documents etc

You said you have a 3 page contract, what does your lawyer say?? Also watch your lawyer and make sure he doesn't have  dreams of joining the big guns  .. sometimes the little guys get all puppy dog like around the "bay street firms".  

The question come down to whether you can prove the debt.  If you cant prove it you are screwed.  Read your contract and make sure you have some legal grounds. I you have even a speck of legal position and you are not completely frivolous  you should be able to "blackmail"  your way out of this ..

Remember  law has nothing to do with right or wrong. its all just pockets and time.. The bank has deep pockets and all the time in the world Any delay or costs don't cost the bank, the funds come out of the assets of the sale so the bank can fight this for free as they will recover all costs.

 Your ex partners have no pockets or they wouldn't have a POS on their  hands and they need the balance and don't want to see the legals eat it all up.  

200K can be gone in 2 or 3 months of legals   just in pretrial game playing. It will all be gone even before the initial cross

You can try to bluff the bank and negotiate something where the balance is split or placed in a trust account. If you release the notice its a walk away by you. If you don't walk away they could sue you  ( don't countersue) and you can stretch this out for a few years before they even cross you and they know it.

If you have a valid claim ( or even the smallest of legal position  and would win in court, you can bluff your way thru .

Don't mess with the bank, make a written offer to release the notice if the funds are placed in a trust account  subject to dispersal by future litigation.   They should accept and now the big guns with the deep pockets are gone  ( all three parties will have to agree )( at a minimum the bank loses any potential damage claim as they did not try to mitigate damages) but I'm guessing your ex partner needs money bad so will be more likely to negotiate so they can get to the balance.  If you did cause him to lose a private sale earlier in the year. he knows you can hurt them and stall them

If the bank refuse the offer , the sale falling thru is then their own fault . You are being reasonable in trying to remove the" innocent"  bank. Play real  nice with the bank as their lawyers want a fight ..they need a  new swimming pool  and the Porsche is 3 years old. time for a new one



Ernest ..your idea sounds right , buy the mortgage..proceed power of sale, keep the extra and make the ex-partner fight for his share. possession is 9/10ths

  however the bank  probably will  not sell it to him as they can be drawn into a fight between ex partners, which they could be sued by  the loser for any move they make . This is not a legal second mortgage but a breach of contract claim which Jayz must prove unlike a registered second mortgage which the property owner must prove is not valid

Of course this is "free advice worth every penny."  and no one here has seen any of the paperwork  and are not  lawyers

For this kind of money you should not rely on any free legal advice on an internet forum. You should retain, or at least consult, a competent lawyer. The Law Society has a lawyer referral service where you dial a 1-800 number for a small fee under $10. You will be provided with the name of a lawyer who practices in this area and who will meet with you for 30 minutes at no charge. The number is in the phone book or on the Law Society's website.

Absolutely

 I would try  use a local lawyer, preferably recommended..he will be less likely to screw you as he has to face you in town and doesn't want the bad reputation locally

Just be very careful not to fall into the lawyer trap and end up spending 300 K in legals to win a moral battle  ... Forget all attitude and emotion..and never forget ..the lawyers sole mission is to take all your money and leave you penniless..then move on to the next victim..nothing more and nothing less..

If you win or if you lose they could care less..they have your money and blame the loss, not on their incompetence but on "litigation risk"

Do not be fooled by " when you win you get your legals"  This is a complete lie  If you were to win a landslide victory ..you may get 50 to 60% of what you actually spent..  most of the time 30% if you are lucky.. Yes the judge will make a speech about how disgusting it is that the lawyers charged so much and may even give them a nasty look down his nose..then they will all go out for golf later and laugh

And remember ..don't be impressed by the fancy law office..your paying for it.

And even better meet over lunch..the lawyer will buy you lunch like a hero..then bill it back to you plus the 500 for the hour it took to eat it.. If you are real lucky he will bring a coworker who can "provide a second opinion"  In plain English..screw you for another couple K while scooping a free lunch to boot

Ask for a written plan how they propose to end the matter in a cost efficient and expeditious method...hahahaha good luck getting a quote from these clowns

Couple things

Only make necessary security moves..IE liens , certificates of pending litigation etc but avoid filing the lawsuit ..Let them do it and you only defend. do not counter sue.

 If you must sue..keep it short sweet and no damages..principle and simple interest only.  Forget the equity, forget profit ..You wont get damages anyways so why give them more reason to fight.. Do not try to crush your opponent..they will fight to the death and bankrupt you both. All your profits will go to the lawyers.

Immediately make a rule 49 offer to settle for the amount with no damages.. provided you get 1 penny more then your offer they will get hit with all legals at a substantial indemnity basis  ( its the best you can do..not all but a fair chunk)

Before going to the lawyer ..make a "without prejudice" demand to your ex-partner . Interest and principle only..Hopefully they are smart enough to avoid the fight and give you what they owe you and be satisfied screwing you for the profit..Lick you wounds and take it as a lesson ..Never Ever have a partner...

The minute you retain a lawyer..your life will go to sh*t

[Driver]

Hi folks,

I had a court-ordered lein on a property for $20,000 with 3% interest per month, compounded monthly, plus legals.  When the property had a buyer, I had to agree to remove the lein before the deal could proceed.  My lawyers costs were calculated in advance, added to the amount of the lein, and I signed off. I got my money, lawyer got paid, buyer of property got the property, and the seller got squat.  Everything was put on paper through the lawyer.  I was informed by my lawyer that the sale CANNOT proceed until the lein is removed, on paper.  If something goes wrong with the sale, the lein would have been placed back on the property.

Good Luck

[Jayz]

Thanks for you all. I've sent private messages with details. Personal experiences worth a curiosity peek ;-)(. If you in case have any comments or preferably advices please spare some. Thks.