Where is everyone?

[ChrisCentral]

Not much action on the board these days - where is everyone?

I've been reading some past posting about people trying to contact the owner of a tax sale property... this is slightly different.

Here is the question - I have been seaching for the owner of a specifc property (close to my good friends cottage) that is vacant - the listed owner is a corporation that has since been dissolved - I have been unable to track down the persons who are listed as company partners - I know the taxes are in arrears but only slightly a few months and the property is far from a tax sale... according to the local township not for a long time.

Does anyone have any insight on this ... is it best to I sit and wait until the years and missing tax dollars add up at the township office and they post it for sale?

[Frank]

Not much action on the board these days - where is everyone?

I've been reading some past posting about people trying to contact the owner of a tax sale property... this is slightly different.

Here is the question - I have been seaching for the owner of a specifc property (close to my good friends cottage) that is vacant - the listed owner is a corporation that has since been dissolved - I have been unable to track down the persons who are listed as company partners - I know the taxes are in arrears but only slightly a few months and the property is far from a tax sale... according to the local township not for a long time.

Does anyone have any insight on this ... is it best to I sit and wait until the years and missing tax dollars add up at the township office and they post it for sale?

I'm not sure that I buy your position that this is property owned by a dissolved corporation...it may be dormant....someone is paying the taxes.  If the crown has taken it, then the ownership would have changed as well.  first go to the Municipal office and ask to see the tax roll, it will show where the bill is being mailed (at least as of the beginning of the year), and presumably who is paying the taxes.  Next go to the registry office and look at the transcript...if you look at the supporting transfer document, you can also get the name of the lawyer that was involved in the last transfer and follow up with that office as well in an effort to contact the owner. 

If someone is paying the taxes, then someone has an interest in it, and may be the person to talk to about purchasing it.   If it is in fact a recently dissolved company then you may have to wait for the next set of events to occur, these things may take some time. 

[Pfm1011]

I am a director of a corporation that was dissolved for administrative reasons. How do I recover the property of the corporation?

A. If the property of a corporation escheats because the corporation has dissolved for certain administrative reasons, the corporation may choose to revive in order to recover its property. A corporation that is revived shall be deemed for all purposes never to have dissolved, subject to the rights of others acquired during the dissolution. For more on reviving a dissolved corporation call the Companies Branch of the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services at (416) 314-8880 or 1-800-361-3223



Where is everyone???...I for one have been using the boat and the jetskis..

[g2020]

Filing articles of revival is a relatively easy procedure. However, the one thing that netpred did not mention is that there is a time limit. The hardest part is filing all missing tax returns so that you can get the required clearance letter from the minister of finance. Frank is not correct with respect to a change of title - nothing gets changed in the registry office, so there is nothing to change back when the corporation is revived. I recently did one of these in under 2 weeks from start to finish including preparation of a dozen tax returns and driving to Oshawa with the bundle of returns and request. I drove to Toronto, filed the articles, and then drove to Mississauga to complete the purchase. l then sold the property to an anxious buyer. Once I knew that the sale was closed I sent in my request for permission from the minister of finance to dissolve the Corporation and received the permission in the mail. I then drove over to the nearest land registry office that can do this type of registration, which for me is Barrie, and dissolved the corporation by paying my 25 bucks. I gained all the information to do it myself by just looking at the government sites on the Internet. I could have waited up to a year for the next Mississauga tax sale and hoped to buy the property that way. Since the most recent sale had prices at or above market value, just like Oakville this spring, I am glad that I did not wait. These days all the good stuff seems to either get redeemed, or it goes for such a high price that it does not justify the risk of purchasing at tax sale. As others have suggested, your lawyer should be able to do a corporate search to find out who can sign the articles of revival. However, you may not be able to locate the individual. Waisted effort, or boondoggling as the tax sale old timers call it, is what makes tax sales so exciting, if you ever beat the odds and get a good one.
Personally I think that you should forget the revival route and wait for the tax sale so that we all get a chance at it.

[netpred]

This has turned into a valuable and interesting thread that has not been covered elsewhere on this board.

[ChrisCentral]

Fantastic information thanks all!

I will do more digging this weekend and provide a little update.

Cheers!

[g2020]

And more specifically where is Dave2? A week and a half and not even a peep! Should we notify the coast guard? Here's hoping he does not tender the Island cottage coming up on the Township of Carling sale - one more island and we will never hear the end of it. Please, somebody bid a ridiculous amount for the island.

[netpred]

And more specifically where is Dave2? A week and a half and not even a peep! Should we notify the coast guard? Here's hoping he does not tender the Island cottage coming up on the Township of Carling sale - one more island and we will never hear the end of it. Please, somebody bid a ridiculous amount for the island.

Don't blame me. Dave hasn't bought me a drink for a while. I hope that he hasn't disappeared to avoid his liquid debts, so to speak.

[Dave2]

And more specifically where is Dave2?  

I wish it was the first photo -shhh.  Unfortunately the second photo more accuratedly displays what happens to people who buy duck marshes at tax sales.

 

[Dave2]

And more specifically where is Dave2? A week and a half and not even a peep! Should we notify the coast guard? Here's hoping he does not tender the Island cottage coming up on the Township of Carling sale - one more island and we will never hear the end of it. Please, somebody bid a ridiculous amount for the island.

G2020:

I will let you or   bid for the local islands this summer. I am all tied up sorting out existing real estate and trying to save enough money for Netpreds beers.

Alternatively you can always buy this one currently owned by Celine Dion.  

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/castle+kaufen+ile-gagnon+quebec+canada-east-central/.  

If you want to go for the really big leagues there are  this summer home in Scotland.

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/castle+buy+killochan-castle+scotland+europe-atlantic-ocean/

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/castle+buy+killochan-castle+scotland+europe-atlantic-ocean/

Of course for the really high rollers there is always Cave Cay in the Bahmas

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/island+buy+cave-cay+bahamas+caribbean/

[ChrisCentral]

So here is a little more information...

200K mortgage listed on the property title - no word if the mortgage is paid in full but it is listed (my father in law did this on this properties in Alberta to stop anyone falsely taking out a mortgage on his condo rental).

Owner of the corporation is deceased - no trail to next of kin...

Now what? Wait till tax sale or negotiate with the Crown... has anyone ever been through a negotiation with the Crown?
Only other alternative to 'revive' the corporation is clearly not possible.

As always I welcome insight.

[g2020]

Chris, your father-in-law is obviously a rather sophisticated investor. You seem to be indicating that the owner of the dissolved corporation was also the mortgagee of the property, and he is now deceased with no will and no heirs. Sophisticated real-estate investors who buy property using a corporation often take out a mortgage for the amount that they advanced to the corporation for the purchase, and this is often referred to as a "purchase money mortgage". This is usually done to protect them against liens. Also since shareholder loans only rank equally with other creditors, this registration moves the owner ahead of other creditors, should claims arise in the future. The Limitations Act, however, can make this mortgage void if it has been inactive for a long period of time, which I believe has now been lowered to 7 years. If you are not snafued by the Limitations Act then I would be inclined to deal with the purchase of the property through the mortgage. To go through the crown would probably result in someone else getting the property. In my experience, it would be turned over to the public trustee due to the intestate issue, and they would offer it for sale through a realtor via MLS. There used to be a lot of very sophisticated investors that followed tax sales, but since there is no longer any money to be made by reselling tax sale property, I am sure you will not hear from them. Here lies the problem. If you alert the public trustee to sell it through MLS then you will have to pay full price. If you wait for a tax sale then you will also likely have to pay fair market value unless you are fortunate enough to have it go up for sale in the winter, which is not likely. Buy the mortgage at a big discount! The clue that you have given us is that the taxes were being paid up until recently. Only the owner of the mortgage would do so since the Corporation is dissolved. I love a good mystery. Best of luck

[Dave2]

Chris, your father-in-law is obviously a rather sophisticated investor. You seem to be indicating that the owner of the dissolved corporation was also the mortgagee of the property, and he is now deceased with no will and no heirs. made by reselling tax sale property,Buy the mortgage at a big discount! The

G2020:

There are other ways to take care of your tax sale competition concerns.  How about this case from the United States.  

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/08/03/bill-mcmachen-michigan-buys-hundreds-foreclosed-properties/

Problem is of course if there are some contaminated properties in the group.


Coming back to the mortgage purchase if it is true that a public trustee has to approve the mortgage purchase I don't see getting it at a discount because you are dealing with a beauracrat. 

[g2020]

Interesting Dave since we do not have all the facts. We have however been given a clue - someone was paying the taxes. A quick look at the assessment roll will probably provide a missing link; that is, the person to whom the tax bill was being sent. My assumption is that the beneficial owner of the mortgage is alive and well - well, maybe not mentally all that well, but alive. Hopefully Chris will let us know how he makes out.