crown lien on property

[tunabrains]

So i made a big mistake. I went to the townhall and asked the clerk if the minimum tender would provide a clear title. She told both me 2nd highest bidder and the highest bidder that their were no liens on the property. He submitted a bid for 36000 - 7300 down and I submitted a bid for 21 500 - 4400 down. There was also 6 other lower bids. Right after the tenders were opened the towns lawyer informed us that there were two crown liens from rev canada on the property, one for 78000 and the other for 44000. Is there anyways for me to get my deposit back or to buy the property without the liens if the first bidder loses his deposit. I feel really stupid and taken advantage of because the towns cleark informed me that the mim tender would provide a clear title.

[Frank]

So i made a big mistake. I went to the townhall and asked the clerk if the minimum tender would provide a clear title. She told both me 2nd highest bidder and the highest bidder that their were no liens on the property. He submitted a bid for 36000 - 7300 down and I submitted a bid for 21 500 - 4400 down. There was also 6 other lower bids. Right after the tenders were opened the towns lawyer informed us that there were two crown liens from rev canada on the property, one for 78000 and the other for 44000. Is there anyways for me to get my deposit back or to buy the property without the liens if the first bidder loses his deposit. I feel really stupid and taken advantage of because the towns cleark informed me that the mim tender would provide a clear title.

Was this told to you prior to the bid opening, and if so can you prove it.  Best to get this stuff in writing, but that is obviously hind-site.  If the clerk can recall their statement to you, then you have a leg up in terms of asking the Treasury to nullify the proceedings...cancel the tax sale.  If not, then you should go and plead your case anyways to the Town Treasurer...and/or your local councillor (who presumably will apply pressure on the Treasurer).

The town is under no obligation to provide you with that kind of information.  Another place you can look for help on this...is what they (the town) include in their advertisement of the tax sales...some municipalities will include cautions on liens, or environmental issues with properties...once they do that for one property they are almost obliged to do so for all others they advertise, unless they make a specific disclaimer to that extent.   Hower, if you look at this particular town's behaviour, in that regard, you can make the case that you expected them to provide that kind of information. 

It is also possible, and you need to find this out, that the crown liens were not on title at the time the town did it's search of title prior to the tax sale (usually done one year earlier..prior to registration...I liked to update the search prior to advertising just in case something else got put on title)...in that event, you can make an arguement (again, if the town was of the habit of making that kind of info. known), that they should have done so, or that there was a subsequent event that changed the picture. 

Don't count on any sympathy from the Treasurer/tax collector...they are a cold hearted bunch (been there, done that), and will not shed a tear for you. 

[tunabrains]

I went to pick up the tender form on the last day of bid acceptance and asked the clerk that day which was this past monday. The other bidder asked on friday and said he was given the same information.  I spoke with him today and he told me hes in the process of speaking with his lawyer (im hoping he works something out).

The liens were place on the title after the town did its search back in march, the liens were put on one in Aug and one in Nov. I dont know how this affects the situation. The town must have known about the liens because the the lawyer had the documents on him and they informed us as soon as they were done opening the tender. Also it seems unfair because the property is only assessed at 75000, and the house is really run down, no one would put a bid on if they knew about the 130000 in liens on the property

The highest bidder also informed me that he found out the someone had asked if there was a lien on the property and the town told them yes back on Feb 10. But the town wouldnt give hime a name.

All that the advestisement stated was the town doesnt make any representations about the title of the above properties, there was 3 of them. I really wish i just did a title search. Its going hurt alot if I lose this money.



Im going to go speak with the treasurer and see if that can accomplish anything. The towns lawyer showed me and th

[netpred]

Worldjohn had a similar situation that I think he resolved successfully. Contact him.

Of course I won't tell you that you should have searched the property before bidding because you now know that.

Good luck.

[MELRAY]

I had the misfortune of witnessing this ordeal. It was abundantly clear that non of the bidders performed any due diligence. The 1st bidder informed the group that he was aware of the lien's but was unable to confirm the amounts.

Good luck

[twinn1]

Frank has it pretty much covered.

 in terms of legality, the town clerk very well may have made and honest decleration that to the best of his knowledge there where no liens on the property as according to your own statements when the town did the search it came up with no liens.  Good luck with the getting the town clerk to sign an affadavit to that effect.

If the town readvertises the property, everyone will know that their is a lien on it and it will more then likely not get any bids, from the treasuer's point of view what does he have to gain by not proceding with the sale? 

Truthfully, who knows when the town found about the lien, it could have been a week or two before the sale when the lawyer went to finalize the paperwork.

Only recourse I can think off and this is a long shot as according to MELRAY, non of the bidders conducted any due dilligence. 
Other memebers please correct me if I am mistaken, i do not want to give bad advice to anyone.
Townships are supposed to provide, if you ask them through proper channels a decleration of the property showing weither or not it has any liens on it, if anyone was provided that decleration, you can use that as leverage for your case.

[barb1322]

Exactly where do you go, or what resources are out there to perform your own title search prior to bidding?

[Dave2]

Barb:

I think this subject is pretty well covered in earlier posts.  Take a look at some of PFM1001's earlier posts.  He does an excellent job on these along with Frank. 

Dave2