Moody's sees continuing declines in US house prices

[Dave2]

Certainly with the prices south of the border compared to those locally there is interest in possibly looking south of the border.  Given that some of the rating services (both Fitch and Moody's) are forecasting further price declines of up to 10% it would appear that there is no need to rush. (here is the moody's reference)

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/moodys-foresees-10-drop-in-us-housing-prices.html

My main concern is what does it portrend for Canadian houseing prices. 

[g2020]

You do not need to go as far as the U.S. To see some very depressing real estate. Yesterday I looked at the two properties coming up in Grey Highlands. The thing that gives the residences value is their proximity to the Talisman Ski Resort. A few days ago the front page of the Owen Sound Sun Times reported that the municipality of Grey Highlands had lost patience with the receiver, and was going to proceed with the tax sale of the entire resort. Yes, the whole frigging thing! The ski hills, the defunct golf course, the ski resort that never opened this winter, the residential accomodations- everything! This area is like a one industry town. Without a viable Talisman, the entire Beaver Valley will lose much of it's value. The townhouse going up for sale is assessed at 250k but without the ski in/ski out to Talisman, it is probably not worth half that. This townhouse used to overlook the golf course but looks at a very depressing patch of weeds. This is an area of declining value that matches the decline of anything that I have seen in the U.S. Talisman has been hit the double whammy of a changing demographic and changing weather, at the same time that the price to create snow got much too expensive relative to the nearby competition at Collingwood. The Talisman receiver has had lookers but, even at salvage pricing, there is no offer. Anyone considering these two tax sale properties should visit the closed resort, and decide what property could be worth if the resort does not reopen.

[Dave2]

You do not need to go as far as the U.S. To see some very depressing real estate. Yesterday I looked at the two properties coming up in Grey Highlands. The thing that gives the residences value is their proximity to the Talisman Ski Resort.

Anyone considering these two tax sale properties should visit the closed resort, and decide what property could be worth if the resort does not reopen.

G2020:

Now is time for you to go after big game.  Unlike in Madoc you may not have worry about redemption on this resort one.  Question after you buy it; are you going to give us all a discount.  

You could always dam the Beaver river and create a lake.  How about we could call your new lake; Lake Frank after this guy  

Have some interesting memories about that area which I will send to you by private message.  Best real estate invesment I have ever made was close to this tax sale and the true story about it won an investment award in the United States.  I will never again get the percentage gain I got on that one.

I am passing.  Too busy trying to find a "Witchercraft expert".  Yes the spelling is correct; got to pay for Netpred's beers somehow.  Good Luck to all.

[Dave2]

So who got the chalet? Bid Prices?

[Elvis]

According to OTS 10 bids, $157K

[g2020]

The bids went 157,000, 152,000, 127,365, 121,000, 102,310, and the rest under 100. Too high for me. It was interesting that some of the bidders did not know about the Talisman bankruptcy, but they did wonder about all the for sale signs, and no sold signs. I loved the sticker on one of the nearby for sale signs that said "drastic reduction" - I have never seen that before. This is one of those properties that will display well on the OTS site selling for 93,000 less then the assessed value, without mention of the issues. The treasurer disclosed that the Talisman resort tax sale redemption price has now climbed to 1.8 million so this should be an interesting tax sale if it occurs. The excess proceeds from this sale to be paid into court are about 130,000 and it all goes to the owner if someone finds her within the one year. Since I live in that county, I should be happy to see the municipality scoop the money, but I am not. The title was clean but the address on the affidavit had the wrong property address of 8 instead of 170, so that could explain part of the problem. The search also disclosed that the owner would now be in her early fourties, lived in a house on Lakeshore Road in Burlington, and got the property from a tech firm, of which she is the president. A corporate search should make her easy to find for any of you gun slingers chasing excess proceeds.
Today's Amhurst Island sale should be interesting. The winning bid on the most recent sale there of a waterfront lot, was from the municipality. Yes, they put in their own tender. Even those conducting the sale were not aware of the by-law passed "in camera" which empowered them to submit their own high tender, and win. I am heading off to the dentist, which these days is much more enjoyable than attending a tax sale opening on Amhurst Island.

[Frank]

"The winning bid on the most recent sale there of a waterfront lot, was from the municipality. Yes, they put in their own tender. Even those conducting the sale were not aware of the by-law passed "in camera" which empowered them to submit their own high tender, and win."

Interesting info. 2020.

Most people are unaware that the Municipality or other government agencies can put in bids on tax sale properties.  In the case of tax sales, the Municipality gets them by default if no one bids, but if they really want the property...for a water access point, or park, or to expand some other Municipal need, then rather than expropriate they have the ability to actually bid for them at tax sale just like all of us gun slingers. 

It is rarely done, but when the need arises they have the right.  Municipalities are corporate entities and as such have all the rights bestowed on individuals.  The difference is that they need to approve the matter and do all the necessary legal things to get their bid ready...that usually means multiple people who would be 'in-the-know', and as such the chances of a leak of the information is always present. 

[ErnestBidder]

  Given the shenanigans that some municipalities carry on, through malice or ignorance, I would think that their own bid should be opened before any other, or, if not, then the general public should be able to view it; if not, what's to say that their (winning) bid would be opened last, and a winner figure be announced? Without any of the bidders being able to view the municipal bid sheet, it could be blank. I've seen enough, in the limited numbers of openings I've attended, to be suspicious. One question that arises:  if they had plans for the property, why would they not offer to buy at market value over the year & years that taxes were not being paid?