What liens will survive a tax sale.

[worldjohn]

I've been bidding for a couple of years (one win), but Im new to this forum. I'd like someone to confirm what I thought I knew.

During a tax sale the only lien that one has to worry about is a crown lien.
Crown liens are relatively rare and treasurers will ususally tell you about them if they know.
Crown liens will be discovered if you do a title search at the local registy office.
Writs of executions are irrelevent during a tax sale.

If I am wrong about any of these statements please expalin why.

[worldjohn]

The more I read this forum the more unsure I become. I always thought that writs of executions and liens placed on a property at the sheriffs office would trigger a sheriffs sale.   If the crown wants to place a lien on a persons assests, wouldnt they put it against the title as apposed to their name?
Has anyone ever found a crown lien doing an execution search that wasnt also on the title?

[Frank]

Firstly, Municipalities are under no obligation to disclose the presence of a crown lien - some have now started to do that, however from a legal perspective where they do a disclosure such as that, then they could run amok since there may have been others that they missed.  Generally, it is buyer beware.

Writs of execution are most certainly relevant in a tax sale - if they were placed by the crown.

Secondly, the crown will usually start a lien not on a property but against the individual (this includes corporate entities since they are defined as individuals) and all of their assets.  Where they know of the holding they may place the lien specifically against it as well.  They want to protect their interests and will use the shotgun approach to do it.

[Frank]

By the way, there is another site which you might want to take a look at with respect to tax sales issues.  It is:

      ontariotaxsales.ca/FAQ.php#f6       

The ontariotaxsales.ca is a pay site and information is available (for a fee) through it, provided the municipality has listed its information with the site.  I have used the site once, when I couldn't physically get to the location to do the search on a weekday, and if you read through their information you will see that it gives you a lot of important information and tips.   For example, crown liens can be registered on a property despite the existance of a tax sale certificate on title, and therefore while a property might not have any liens when you did your search there can be one placed on it literally minutes before the sale, and be valid.  I would a have a difficult time seeing a municipal treasurer withhold a deposit in such a situation (for failure to close), however the law says that they can.

[jwjonker]

Firstly, Municipalities are under no obligation to disclose the presence of a crown lien - some have now started to do that, however from a legal perspective where they do a disclosure such as that, then they could run amok since there may have been others that they missed.  Generally, it is buyer beware.

Writs of execution are most certainly relevant in a tax sale - if they were placed by the crown.

Secondly, the crown will usually start a lien not on a property but against the individual (this includes corporate entities since they are defined as individuals) and all of their assets.  Where they know of the holding they may place the lien specifically against it as well.  They want to protect their interests and will use the shotgun approach to do it.

So where can writs of executions be located?

If the crown puts a lien against the individual and the assets, where would that be found?

[worldjohn]

Thanks to Frank for the info.  Its a little scary to think I've been bidding without having done the proper searches before hand. But then again there is a risk in every business venture.

 What percentage of tax sale properties have crown liens that are not disclosed by the treasurer or that show up just before the sale?  My guess is less than 1 per cent, any other opinions?

Regardless of the odds it does seem wise to do an execution search.  For this you need the owners name which you get from the title search.  Then you can do the search on their name which I think you can do at the registry office or at the sherriffs office which is ususally located nearby. I am a relative newbie at this so can Frank or someone confirm this is the process. Thanks

[Frank]

Regardless of the odds it does seem wise to do an execution search.  For this you need the owners name which you get from the title search.  Then you can do the search on their name which I think you can do at the registry office or at the sherriffs office which is ususally located nearby. I am a relative newbie at this so can Frank or someone confirm this is the process. Thanks

That is correct.