no valid tender

[taper guy]

Does anyone know what happens if a municipality does not receive a valid tender?  Does the property carry on to another sale or can you go and put a tender in after the sale date? I would think it carries on to another sale but no hurt in asking. 

[Sasha]

Hi,

I think they have to advertise and have the sale again.

Hey taper guy, are we supposed to lie and tell people that we put in a tender and then lost the money?

Sasha

[taper guy]

I guess that depends on who you are telling it to. A good saying I learned is "If you'll lie for me then you will lie to me"

[Frank]

I think they have to advertise and have the sale again.
Sasha

No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself.  If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid.  Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.

[shacksman]

[[/quote]

No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself.  If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid.  Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
[/quote]

If sold as surplus, do they have to get the original tender price or could they sell it off at any price?
Doug

[Frank]

Once the Municipality takes ownership, they can sell it for whatever price they can get.  They are obligated to advertise it and try to get market value.  Don't forget since they own it, they can now take you through it, and presumably offer guarantees as to condition - this is a normal market transaction.

[

No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself.  If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid.  Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
[/quote]

If sold as surplus, do they have to get the original tender price or could they sell it off at any price?
Doug
[/quote]

[Sasha]

Hi,

I guess that depends on whats meant by 'valid tender', okay, if NO BIDS are received then the municipality owns it and sells it off for a good profit.
What if the situation that occurred in Oshawa occurs, such as a mistake on the envelope that the municipality provided and didn't say 'for tax sale'.  I had put in a bid and my deposit was returned; however, other than what I read on this site, there was no mention of holding the sale again, I never bothered calling the municipality since I couldn't go as high the successful bidder and knew he'd bid again if it was held again.

Sasha

[Frank]

Hi,

I guess that depends on whats meant by 'valid tender', okay, if NO BIDS are received then the municipality owns it and sells it off for a good profit.
What if the situation that occurred in Oshawa occurs, such as a mistake on the envelope that the municipality provided and didn't say 'for tax sale'.  I had put in a bid and my deposit was returned; however, other than what I read on this site, there was no mention of holding the sale again, I never bothered calling the municipality since I couldn't go as high the successful bidder and knew he'd bid again if it was held again.

Sasha

In the Oshawa situation, there was no sale, it got cancelled after the fact due to irregularities.  I understand they will hold it again.  For a municipality to seize a property, there must have been a sale with no successful bidders.

[LarasDad]

No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself.  If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid.  Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.

Frank, based on your previous employment background, do you think in a no-bid scenario that it would offend a treasurer if you were to offer to buy the property for the original minimum (plus accrued taxes) a day or two after the sale ? (as if you had placed a bid at minimum)

Thanx in advance.

[Dave2]

While I am not certain of full legals; I believe the property must be vested by the municpality.  (ie now they legally assume title).

The municipality has a 1 - 2 year timeframe to allow them to vest it and then you can approach them.  Usually sale of public land requires an agreement by council.
This is to protect them from assuming a site with problems; eg environmental contamination.

Depending on the municipality they may offer it for public sale.

Don't expect them to respond quickly.  In some cases I have waited more then one year and still waiting.  

I have used it occasionally for chequerboard subdivision purchases to increase size of adjacent lot but sell price can be all over the map depending on inherent value of property.

[Frank]

Nothing ventured...nothing gained....no offence would be taken.  However, the Municipal Act requires that a municipality vest the property within one year of the sale...or start over, they are not required to take it, and in the case of a property suspected of contamination they wouldn't want to.   Once they have assumed it by vesting, then in order for them to sell it, they must declare it as a surplus municipal property and proceed with a legitimate sale process...you can't get a leg up. 

One caveat, in the case of suspected contamination, the municipality has the right during the one year period to enter onto the property (with police escort if necessary...been there, done that), in order to conduct tests to determine the extent of contamination, and of course the expected costs to clean it up.  What I had done in the past, and what some are doing now, is to go onto the property and conduct the tests, then go out for proposals from prospective 'White Knights' who are willing to buy it from the municipality (following vesting) for a buck (or more depending on the clean-up costs).  These proposals are usually looking for someone who will spend the million(s) that the clean-up will cost and build something on the property...in return they will qualify for a tax credit over the next number of years that is intended to reimburse them for all or part of the clean-up costs.  It's a win-win in the end as the Municipality gets the site cleaned up at no cost, and now has a developed property which will pay full taxes based on the new development for years into the future.  This is not a process intended for the weak, or financially challenged.   If you come forward with an interest in advance of all that, they will likely put your name on the prospective 'White Knight" list.

No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself.  If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid.  Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.

Frank, based on your previous employment background, do you think in a no-bid scenario that it would offend a treasurer if you were to offer to buy the property for the original minimum (plus accrued taxes) a day or two after the sale ? (as if you had placed a bid at minimum)

Thanx in advance.

[LarasDad]

Thank you both for your further educating me and any other interested forum members !

The particular piece I'm looking at is probably clean (North Ont bush previously logged, landlocked) and as best as I can surmise based on phone call to township clerk, owners deceased/incompetent, inheritors, if any, nowhere to be found.

Considered bidding but don't have financing guaranteed - yet !

So this may yet be a viable option.

[Frank]

One more thing...       The tax incentive grants are usually under the Municipalities' 'Brownfield' policies.  In most cases these only apply to specific areas of town that have been targetted for rejuvenation.  Check to make sure that they apply, and what restrictions the municipality has placed on them before you go in to acquisition mode.   Not all municipalities have adopted these strategies, but most of the large old urban ones have - I believe.   If you are doing this type of deal you will need expert assitance, pm me and I can line you up.  Again, this is not for the financially challenged, you need money to make money.  

[LarasDad]

fwiw

Looks like the game rules really are changing.

The property I was asking about was the 100 ac in Chisholm - got this nice reply to my email request from the township clerk:

"Dear Sir:
The highest bid for the property was $27,750.00  We received 31 tenders.  There was
a lot of interest. Thanks!"

The minimum on this was $4574.48.  This is landlocked 2nd growth bush; only access is "old logging road" more or less following unopened RA; at least 1/4 mi since its 2nd lot from actual road.  And about 20-25 ac is wetland, soon to be EP ? since they have already past their draft official plan - entire are is "candidate ANSI".

Per MLS, land with road frontage goes for a little over $1k per acre, so maybe $300/ac for "useless" property isn't overpaying ? (taxes are "about $400" according to township clerk).

PS this was "featured" on OTS.

[netpred]

fwiw

Looks like the game rules really are changing.

The property I was asking about was the 100 ac in Chisholm - got this nice reply to my email request from the township clerk:

"Dear Sir:
The highest bid for the property was $27,750.00  We received 31 tenders.  There was
a lot of interest. Thanks!"

The minimum on this was $4574.48.  This is landlocked 2nd growth bush; only access is "old logging road" more or less following unopened RA; at least 1/4 mi since its 2nd lot from actual road.  And about 20-25 ac is wetland, soon to be EP ? since they have already past their draft official plan - entire are is "candidate ANSI".

Per MLS, land with road frontage goes for a little over $1k per acre, so maybe $300/ac for "useless" property isn't overpaying ? (taxes are "about $400" according to township clerk).

PS this was "featured" on OTS.

Thank you for the result and your helpful post.

There are bargains out there but there seem to be overpays as well. I guess the trick is to stay the course and bid what you are comfortable bidding. Without having researched this property, the result does seem surprising in terms of number of bids, and sale price. I wonder if it had some "hidden" value?