Trent Hills

[Dave2]

Took a nice drive in the country before I got all my information which may have been a mistake.

Trent Hills is first tax sale of 2009.  Here are my preliminary findings:

a) Two adjacent properties (country road 4 Old township of Percy are old checker board subdivision courtesy of White Rock Estates whom the province put some of the principals in the slammer.  It is okay except for one thing.

 They are zoned a combination of EC and rural and with my typical bad luck EC is zoned in the Front by the road and rural in the rear.  If you can convince the local conservation authority to allow you to
run a road over the land you might have something but they didn't sound very enthusiastic when I talked to them this afternoon. 
 
Any body got any experience with conservation authorities and access roads over EC zoned land.  I have previously been warned about this one (Trent Valley) as not being an easy one to deal with.

b) Other property north of Campbellford is definitely interesting and I could not figure why it is a tax sale.  Nice storey and one half about 2,000 sq. ft. house presently occupied on a one acre lot close to the Trent Canal System.  (50 yards away if your neighbours will allow you to park a boat). 

Property is well maintained and no obvious negatives I could see from road.  (you have road access from 3 sides of property so it is easy to see). 

Only reason I could figure its up for tax sale is things are a little quiet in cottage country this time of year
and the local vacation spots want to increase their flow with hungry tax sale buyers.    I haven't run any legals yet as I usually wait until the last week but I am definitely going to keep my eye on it if it is not redeemed. 

Rather stupidly I forgot my camera or I would have posted some pictures to whet everyone's appetite. 
Obviously I expect it to be redeemed as this is the nicest tax sale property I have seen in the last year and a half. 

Now that I have done my good deed for the year can someone be nice to me and advise me about legals.  If they are clean private posts are always appreciated. 

Dave2

[Pfm1011]

Thanks..Very helpful.  In regards to the house, If it is a clean as you say ,   it will probably redeen. Unfortunately its not on teranet under the pin so I have no idea of area sales etc but its not on the water so it isnt worth a ton out that way.

[ErnestBidder]

  Well, Dave2, you don't need an access road, as both lots front onto Humphries road; what you need is a building permit to build on the non-EC parts of each lot. If you meant to say driveway, perhaps a neighbour might grant a RoW if you talk nice, and are prepared to compensate them.  I'm curious as to how one sends a private note to you, as your email address is hidden.

  Never count on there not beind a valid reason for the tax sale: owners disappear for various reasons, so first check to see if they reside therein. If not, they may not be able to be found, ergo tax sale.

  A tip for serious bidders: I went to my 1st or 2nd tax sale, bid, won, got redeemed, but, beforehand, took a drive, saw 2 vacant lots, went back to bid, not enough instant money to deposit, and both lots went unbid. Market value for each would have been at least 40k at that time. Guess who now travels with extra bank drafts in his pocket? A side benefit is that they can be tendered if you win one of the bids.

  In regard to quick completion: I once requested immediate deed registration, as I had the funds on hand, and staff immediately typed up the deed and zipped to the registry office, which was located in the same town. Not so easy if it's some distance.

[Dave2]

Ernest:

a) Re Humphries properties my meaning was intended to be a driveway coming off Humphries.  Problem is adjacent properties have same problem as they are also blocked off front coming off Humphries with EC zoning.

These properties are not that far from Oak Ridges Morraine boundaries so that is why I am also conservative.  For the hunters in the group they don't even have a pond for duck hunting.

b) On Campbellford property the garage door was open and driveway had recently been used when I drove around it that is why I felt it was occcupied.  As to who is resident there that is why I will wait a couiple of weeks and start to get more serious in legal investigation if still for sale for unpaid taxes.

Unfortunately as PFM noted Northumberland country is still back in the Neanderthal age.  We are still on paper land titles.  Electronic conversion is probably a year aware according to one local source when I checked.  Some properties are on electronic but I understand we have a fair amount of conversion still to do. 

[SandraC]

Re: The 2 Vacant Land Properties

Since we are looking for a piece of land just to play on and enjoy nature, I think one of these EC properties might be of interest to us. 

On EC land, can I build a VERY small "hunting cabin" without permits?

What would the taxes be on something like these places be?

Thanks, Sandra

[Frank]

    In regard to quick completion: I once requested immediate deed registration, as I had the funds on hand, and staff immediately typed up the deed and zipped to the registry office, which was located in the same town. Not so easy if it's some distance.

You got real lucky.  Closing quickly reduces the possibility of a redemption. 

Normally, the treasurer will close the bidding, open the tender, then advise that he will take a few days to review the bids and determine a winner.  If you are the high bidder, then don't wait, and show up the next day with certified cheque for at least the balance of your bid, and add another $5k or more (whatever it takes) for land transfer tax, gst, and any additional taxes that they might levy on top of the the minimum.  Hand it to them, and ask for a receipt.  They can deposit it in trust, and if there is too much they will credit it back to your tax account after the sale...you've prepaid your property taxes (and can then ask for it back).  This way you won't be holding up anything. 

The treasurer normally has to have the town's lawyer prepare the deed and transfer documents, which you will have to be on hand to sign.  Make sure they have at least 12 ways to reach you when these documents are ready and you haul your ....a... up there to do the signing without delay.  These are about the only things you can do to hasten the process. 

[Pfm1011]

I pay as quick as possible but it always takes weeks until I see the registration done.....It is a nasty feeling until you see your name on the title. 

[Dave2]

Sandra:  (my apologies but one of these days I will learn how to insert quotes correctly)

" Since we are looking for a piece of land just to play on and enjoy nature, I think one of these EC properties might be of interest to us.  On EC land, can I build a VERY small "hunting cabin" without permits?

On EC zoned land to the best of my knowledge no.  In fact as you can see from my earlier post they were even negative about a driveway.  (I referred to it as road access in my original post but meant a driveway.)

In some municipalities on properties zoned "rural" you are allowed to put up a small shack that I believe cannot exceed 100 sq. ft. in area. To the best of my knowledge in Trent Hills they will not even allow it.  Thus right now unless my more knowledgeable bettors correct me I believe you face the following:

a) you cannot get access for vehicle parking etc. unless you park on the road.
b) on the rural part (Unfortunately at the rear) you might get away with a trailer if the neighbours do not complain but your only option for a larger dwelling is a rezoning to Season Rural Residential.  When I asked the town officials I was directed to get an okay from the conservation authority first for a driveway.   Then they would deal with the rezoning but this would also require an okay from Kawartha Pine Ridge health unit.  (for the sceptic system)

Don't get discouraged?  On one tax sale property I bid on and lost last year in North Kawartha township I was told I would have to get approvals from a total of 20 different government agencies to get a building permit.   LOL
  
What would the taxes be on something like these places be?  (It's low.  I don't have the info in front of me but I believe only about $250 a year but that is because I believe no one believes you can do anything with the property. )

Funny enough I may actually go after this one because you can't do anything with it on behalf of my son who is an amateur astronomer and is looking for a very dark spot to view the stars from.  

[Pfm1011]

additionally the lots are fairly small but if you took them both you might be ok for a house ...mind you it is just lots in the middle of nowhere..One house is built on the street . Im also guessing but I doubt the city will plow the road for one house

[ErnestBidder]

  This review, etc is just so much BS. The process is simple, the rules pretty clear, and I feel they're just stalling to let their local owner catch up on back taxes. I think it's time for the successful bidders to go to staff immediately after, ask for the total amount owing as of the next business day, and tell them you will be prepared to close the deal then. The deed is pretty simple to type up, you pay, you sign, they register. There may now be some complication with the electronic registration, so I say Thank God that Northumberland country is still back in the Neanderthal age. The last land sale I did, some months ago, cost me only $100 for a lawyer to witness my signature; now, they've changed the rules again so now, as a seller, it costs me full price for a lawyer, even if he has known me for 40 years, and some lawyers are now charging $1000 & up for a simple cash sale/purchase! Does the phrase "the fix is in" seem familiar to you? This is, purportedly, all to do with the money laundering act: had the financial institutions been doing the job properly for the last 20 years, we wouldn't be paying through the nose now. Don't get me started, or I'll tell you how I really feel!

[Frank]

Sandra:  (my apologies but one of these days I will learn how to insert quotes correctly)

In some municipalities on properties zoned "rural" you are allowed to put up a small shack that I believe cannot exceed 100 sq. ft. in area.

Insert Quote on the right side of the screen..then type your message below it.  Simple enough

The 100 sq. ft. actually comes from the fact that the Building code does not require a permit for anything less.  However, these are still considered 'accessory structures' and most places do not permit them until such time as you have a main building on the property.  If you want to build just a garage on a property, you really have to come in with a permit for a house and attached garage... pay all the fees etc.....then don't build the house....pretty expensive garage, and they can give you an order to comply in that you have put the cart before the proverbial horse.

Also, ditto to Enerstbidder, as the cost of closing transactions under the new electronic systems....it's become a money grab for the lawyers.   Hobbyists are now pretty much precluded.

[ErnestBidder]

  I believe that each of the two lots is of sufficient size to allow building a home, so, if some way can be found to reach the back portion in a way satisfactory to the conservation authority, then you are away. It's an opportunity for creative thinking.

  BTW, does anyone look at all the listings at iciworld.net?

[Dogma]

I am new to this forum, but am interested in waterfront lot in the Northbrook Region of the land O Lakes. Small property 3-4 acres..o septic or hydro necessary.

Not planning a house or major cottage just a getaway, maybe in future a strawbale small house,with solar, and bottled water.

Can someone educate one on what are the steps, pitfalls & costs associated with such sales..and general scenario's one goes through during this tax sale process.

I work full time,  so I am not like some here who seem retired or have plenty of time to do their "biddings"...

I am also not a pernicious type or try to take advantages of situations for the old mighty buck or for ones ego.

Maybe one could at least educate us honest, humble people so we do not get ourselves in trouble?

[ErnestBidder]

  It has been said many, many times in this forum: read all, & I do mean ALL, the postings; they constitute an education. When I first came on board, it took me about 2 weeks and it was time well spent.

[David]

Has this property been redeemed? I dont want to waste my time dealing with the land registrar and lawyers, any help would be appreciated.

Regards.

David