Possible For sale

[Dogma]

PFM - You seem a little steamed, about the right of farmers to organize?

Ontario Farmers Association OFA - http://www.ofa.on.ca/site/home.asp

As one who seems to believe in "private enterprise" and the rights of private property or private landowners, I believe OFA would qualify.

I also have noticed they support water conservation and more importatntly a recently annoucced bi-mass environmental initative. In other word, spent corn, soy and manure, even bio mass organic's - can now be used on small to large farms to create natural gas for electrical production. Incentives to build a bio-mass facility (inwhich the Germans/Denmark) have been doing for 20 years, to produce bio-gas are now available in Canada.

Landfill, CO2 release into the atmosphere will be lessened by this initative. Electrical / power needs will be used directly by the farmer and/or allowed to be put into the public grid for a small rebate per cent/kw hour, and a maximum amount limited to be allow into the grids "current electrical grid capacity restrictions".

I would suggest these rural "farmers" whom put food on your table everyday- are thank goodnessin a better position now, to help lower their small farm expenses, reduce their/our CO2 footprint while helping maintaining an "essential service" for the general public.

The family owned small farm "business" hopefully will be more competitive against the large multinational Monsanto's of the world, that work to destroy small family farms, that are more environmentally friendly, ecologically more sustainable, and frankly a more important resource in this country (as in many countries) than Montsanto or any Bay Street Financial Analysis, or a luxury boat or car salesman that you or I ever need.

 I would suggest you support local farmers, and their right to "private enterprise"

[Pfm1011]

The OFA is fine( I'm a member)    Ontario Landowners Association .. is a totally different group  Please try to keep up..http://ruralrevolution.com/website/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=144&Itemid=219

One problem with your BIO MASS ..All the material that is usually returned to the soil is burned up in cars or generators..So guess what..Nitrogen has to be purchased from Union Carbide ...Who makes it from natural gas.. end of the day it doesn't work and union carbide and Monsanto make a pile more money ,  a few farmers scam some nice little grants ( as it is not economically feasible )  and the pollution piles on deeper but we feel better ( sort of like a hybrid..doesn't actually work to stop pollution but we feel better)

It can only be sustainable under a system of proper crop rotation and Nitrogen free farming..and Monsanto and Union carbide wont allow that to happen. Additionally it will force the cost of food up  just like the botched ethanol fiasco.

Synthetic diesel from biomass produced using the Fischer-Tropsch method is being used and tested worldwide and looks very viable however somehow I don't see Exxon allowing it.  ( Very big in Nordic states that have massive forests)

The system was invented by Nazi's during WWII and reborn by South Africans during aparthied years. It produces synthetic diesel from any biomass and is substantially better product then Bio diesel  (which is essentially crap, might as well use vegetable oil) . Since it works using any biomass, you can use forestry by product and fast growth trees  (bamboo, Poplar etc) to fuel the machines . No nitrogen inputs are required and the whole system is carbon neutral  if you use plants and the growing plants absorb carbon till we burn them and the process begins again.

Of course the coal miners want to use coal to create the fuel ( as the south Africans are doing) and oil companies want to use natural gas to make it..  so we still have a massive pollution problem if we make coal gas  or natural gas based diesel.



As per  Monsanto, They  dont want to destroy the small farmer..They simply want the small farmer  ( and the planet) to become addicted to Monsanto patented products.. ( which they have very successfully done, 80 % of the worlds soy and corn crops are under Monsanto patent)

Incase anyone doesn't know how this works..all hybrid seeds are sterile so the farmer must buy seeds every year from Monsanto instead of retaining part of last years crop for seed. Farmer gets to work even less ( dont get me started) and Monsanto gets control and money.

In case you didn't know 80% of the soy and almost 100% of the corn crops in Canada is Genetically modified (GM) and they dont have to tell us unlike Europe who requires disclosure so very little GM is grown.

Amazing how Monsanto's patent on Glysophate (roundup) has expired, and they now have conned people into using roundup ready (GM)  corn and soy, which has lead to weeds becoming immune to Glysophate,  Which means Monsanto can now introduce another weed killer and have another 20 years of patent protection and guaranteed revenue...Amazing how that works isn't it

However Monsanto is not entirely evil, Their  research has resulted in massive crop yield increases ( 2 and 3 times)  and literally has saved billions from starving. We can feed the world because of them..Mind you they have gone too far..Thanks for the wheat..but I really dont want a GM non bruising tomato that has no flavor and can be transported from Mexico to Canada. Thanks to them India is a food exporting nation ( mind you small farmers are killing themselves because Monsanto and Union Carbide make all the money and they make none) The yield increases are great but the sterile plant is a scam which will lead to monsanto literally controlling world food supply

[Dogma]

PFM -

Interesting stuff about Montsanto - but in the end they are evil, and frankly the world is better off without their GM seeds. (period)

And yes, you CAN buy NON Monsanto seeds, heritage seeds etc.

YOU just choose not to for economic reasons - alone.

You are obvious not a certified organic farmer. You use "mass" farming ways, with heavy equipment and pesticides.

And I hesitate to say this - but why are you not moving away from Montsanto? Is it NOT your business?

Especially; if your morals (and arguments here) suggest Monsanto is not your "best partner".  I don't get it?

I frankly; cannot understand how in the world you could agree with the argument that Monsanto's only "so called benefit" to the public, is having increased food production (short term) This does not benefit us AT ALL!  Just you.

We DO NOT need more food - in N.A or Europe, we are fat enough!

Our "Subsidies" to farmers, also encourage to produce milk and wheat more than we need - (Europeans are throwing out millions of gallons every year!)

What we need is more evenl - "distribution of food".  (NOT more food) And we certainly do not want just a - few massive farms as you suggest - in the world. That would be risky and highly STUPID. 

What is a drought or deasese hits one or two of 4 mass farms?? What do you do then?

And the reason Aftrica cannot feed itself, is NOT because it does not have "traditional knowledge" or farming skills, or history to do so...

On the contrary - they do a better job and are more sustainable with smaller farm production (long term) - than our massive, leanings in mechanized and Monsanto-ed "owned" "agri-business" in N.A (North America) 

Africa has also been doing farming much longer than you or I.

The geo-political problems in Africa are the ONLY reasons they cannot feed their populations. i.e war and drought and HIV aids.

Our "Subsidies", also encourage to over produce milk and wheat (every year Europeans are throwing out millions of gallons of milk!)

So, that's farming is it?

We ALSO do not know long term issues with such products...although round up we do! Why do you think every municipality in the country has banded lawn spraying???

Lastly; I think your Bio- gas info is again not accurate when it comes to Biogas: (And we are not speaking of ethanol)

Biogas is a combustible fuel which is produced through the Anaerobic Digestion process.

Anaerobic means ?in the absence of oxygen?. There are many families of methane-producing bacteria.

These bacteria produce biogas in the fourth stage of a complex microbiological process. In the right set of circumstances, the organic fraction of liquid or solid biomass can be converted into valuable fuel.

Biogas consists of roughly 40 % ? 70% methane, with the rest being CO2. There are also trace amounts of H2O and H2S produced by the microbiological process. The amount of methane in the biogas is largely a function of the organic input menu.

Worldwide AD/Biogas History:

Anaerobic Digestion occurs naturally, such as in bogs or in ruminant animals. The process of putting organic material into a sealed vessel, removing the oxygen, and thereafter producing biogas has been documented in parts of China and parts of India already 50 years ago.

In parts of Europe,most notably in Switzerland and in the U.K., bench-scale and small-scale digesters were being constructed in the early 1970?s.

Anaerobic Digester/biogas technology has grown exponentially since then.

It is now used for both wastewater treatment and for energy generation. In Western Europe, there are now about 5,000 Anaerobic Digester installations. In Germany alone, there are roughly 4,000 installations, with the total installed power generation capacity of 1,000 MW.

Anaerobic bioconversion is one of many strategies towards a sustainable economy.

In some countries such as Austria, Germany, and Switzerland, vast amounts of organic by-products are converted to biogas in Anaerobic Digesters.

They do three things:

1) They produce "locally" - natural methane that can be converted to electricity. (Locally)
2) They utilize local corn, soya spent materials (unsaleable materials), manure and mostly restaurant oils (that would be normally spent, thrown into landfil)
3) They generate 1000MW - that is used by local "smaller" farms, that is sustianable, and does not add to any natural occuring CO2 immisions.
4) Adds power to the grid so that no other forms of electrical production is required. i.e nuke, dams or coal burning facilities.

This overall cost effective and Co2 neutral method - saves money for the farmer, the general public for atomic plants, and has not long term effect or costs associated with ANY other power generation facilities.

They may not be able to power/sustain a large gas, electrical user. But, for a smaller farm they are an excellent alternative to coal, atomic or hydro dams.