Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => General => Topic started by: taper guy on June 16, 2007, 10:16:16 PM
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Does anyone know what happens if a municipality does not receive a valid tender? Does the property carry on to another sale or can you go and put a tender in after the sale date? I would think it carries on to another sale but no hurt in asking. ;D
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Hi,
I think they have to advertise and have the sale again.
Hey taper guy, are we supposed to lie and tell people that we put in a tender and then lost the money?
Sasha
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I guess that depends on who you are telling it to. A good saying I learned is "If you'll lie for me then you will lie to me" ;)
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I think they have to advertise and have the sale again.
Sasha
No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself. If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid. Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
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[[/quote]
No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself. If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid. Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
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If sold as surplus, do they have to get the original tender price or could they sell it off at any price?
Doug
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Once the Municipality takes ownership, they can sell it for whatever price they can get. They are obligated to advertise it and try to get market value. Don't forget since they own it, they can now take you through it, and presumably offer guarantees as to condition - this is a normal market transaction.
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No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself. If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid. Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
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If sold as surplus, do they have to get the original tender price or could they sell it off at any price?
Doug
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Hi,
I guess that depends on whats meant by 'valid tender', okay, if NO BIDS are received then the municipality owns it and sells it off for a good profit.
What if the situation that occurred in Oshawa occurs, such as a mistake on the envelope that the municipality provided and didn't say 'for tax sale'. I had put in a bid and my deposit was returned; however, other than what I read on this site, there was no mention of holding the sale again, I never bothered calling the municipality since I couldn't go as high the successful bidder and knew he'd bid again if it was held again.
Sasha
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Hi,
I guess that depends on whats meant by 'valid tender', okay, if NO BIDS are received then the municipality owns it and sells it off for a good profit.
What if the situation that occurred in Oshawa occurs, such as a mistake on the envelope that the municipality provided and didn't say 'for tax sale'. I had put in a bid and my deposit was returned; however, other than what I read on this site, there was no mention of holding the sale again, I never bothered calling the municipality since I couldn't go as high the successful bidder and knew he'd bid again if it was held again.
Sasha
In the Oshawa situation, there was no sale, it got cancelled after the fact due to irregularities. I understand they will hold it again. For a municipality to seize a property, there must have been a sale with no successful bidders.
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No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself. If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid. Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
Frank, based on your previous employment background, do you think in a no-bid scenario that it would offend a treasurer if you were to offer to buy the property for the original minimum (plus accrued taxes) a day or two after the sale ? (as if you had placed a bid at minimum)
Thanx in advance.
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While I am not certain of full legals; I believe the property must be vested by the municpality. (ie now they legally assume title).
The municipality has a 1 - 2 year timeframe to allow them to vest it and then you can approach them. Usually sale of public land requires an agreement by council.
This is to protect them from assuming a site with problems; eg environmental contamination.
Depending on the municipality they may offer it for public sale.
Don't expect them to respond quickly. In some cases I have waited more then one year and still waiting.
I have used it occasionally for chequerboard subdivision purchases to increase size of adjacent lot but sell price can be all over the map depending on inherent value of property.
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Nothing ventured...nothing gained....no offence would be taken. However, the Municipal Act requires that a municipality vest the property within one year of the sale...or start over, they are not required to take it, and in the case of a property suspected of contamination they wouldn't want to. Once they have assumed it by vesting, then in order for them to sell it, they must declare it as a surplus municipal property and proceed with a legitimate sale process...you can't get a leg up.
One caveat, in the case of suspected contamination, the municipality has the right during the one year period to enter onto the property (with police escort if necessary...been there, done that), in order to conduct tests to determine the extent of contamination, and of course the expected costs to clean it up. What I had done in the past, and what some are doing now, is to go onto the property and conduct the tests, then go out for proposals from prospective 'White Knights' who are willing to buy it from the municipality (following vesting) for a buck (or more depending on the clean-up costs). These proposals are usually looking for someone who will spend the million(s) that the clean-up will cost and build something on the property...in return they will qualify for a tax credit over the next number of years that is intended to reimburse them for all or part of the clean-up costs. It's a win-win in the end as the Municipality gets the site cleaned up at no cost, and now has a developed property which will pay full taxes based on the new development for years into the future. This is not a process intended for the weak, or financially challenged. If you come forward with an interest in advance of all that, they will likely put your name on the prospective 'White Knight" list.
No, once they hold the sale, and if no bids are received, then the Municipality has one year during which it can claim the property for itself. If it doesn't, then it must start the process over again, and you might see it for sale in a future bid. Most times they would take it, then sell it off as surplus municipal property if they don't have a use for it.
Frank, based on your previous employment background, do you think in a no-bid scenario that it would offend a treasurer if you were to offer to buy the property for the original minimum (plus accrued taxes) a day or two after the sale ? (as if you had placed a bid at minimum)
Thanx in advance.
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Thank you both for your further educating me and any other interested forum members !
The particular piece I'm looking at is probably clean (North Ont bush previously logged, landlocked) and as best as I can surmise based on phone call to township clerk, owners deceased/incompetent, inheritors, if any, nowhere to be found.
Considered bidding but don't have financing guaranteed - yet !
So this may yet be a viable option.
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One more thing... The tax incentive grants are usually under the Municipalities' 'Brownfield' policies. In most cases these only apply to specific areas of town that have been targetted for rejuvenation. Check to make sure that they apply, and what restrictions the municipality has placed on them before you go in to acquisition mode. Not all municipalities have adopted these strategies, but most of the large old urban ones have - I believe. If you are doing this type of deal you will need expert assitance, pm me and I can line you up. Again, this is not for the financially challenged, you need money to make money. 8)
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fwiw
Looks like the game rules really are changing.
The property I was asking about was the 100 ac in Chisholm - got this nice reply to my email request from the township clerk:
"Dear Sir:
The highest bid for the property was $27,750.00 We received 31 tenders. There was
a lot of interest. Thanks!"
The minimum on this was $4574.48. This is landlocked 2nd growth bush; only access is "old logging road" more or less following unopened RA; at least 1/4 mi since its 2nd lot from actual road. And about 20-25 ac is wetland, soon to be EP ? since they have already past their draft official plan - entire are is "candidate ANSI".
Per MLS, land with road frontage goes for a little over $1k per acre, so maybe $300/ac for "useless" property isn't overpaying ? (taxes are "about $400" according to township clerk).
PS this was "featured" on OTS.
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fwiw
Looks like the game rules really are changing.
The property I was asking about was the 100 ac in Chisholm - got this nice reply to my email request from the township clerk:
"Dear Sir:
The highest bid for the property was $27,750.00 We received 31 tenders. There was
a lot of interest. Thanks!"
The minimum on this was $4574.48. This is landlocked 2nd growth bush; only access is "old logging road" more or less following unopened RA; at least 1/4 mi since its 2nd lot from actual road. And about 20-25 ac is wetland, soon to be EP ? since they have already past their draft official plan - entire are is "candidate ANSI".
Per MLS, land with road frontage goes for a little over $1k per acre, so maybe $300/ac for "useless" property isn't overpaying ? (taxes are "about $400" according to township clerk).
PS this was "featured" on OTS.
Thank you for the result and your helpful post.
There are bargains out there but there seem to be overpays as well. I guess the trick is to stay the course and bid what you are comfortable bidding. Without having researched this property, the result does seem surprising in terms of number of bids, and sale price. I wonder if it had some "hidden" value?
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fwiw
Looks like the game rules really are changing.
The property I was asking about was the 100 ac in Chisholm - got this nice reply to my email request from the township clerk:
Did they mention if the winning bidder was an individual or corporation like Dignam.
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Did they mention if the winning bidder was an individual or corporation like Dignam.
Sorry Dave, that three sentence email was all she wrote.
Here's an <a href="http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10370147&PidKey=405451296>MLS listing[/url] for cleared land with 2 road frontages
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Did they mention if the winning bidder was an individual or corporation like Dignam.
Here's an <a href="http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10370147&PidKey=405451296>MLS listing[/url] for cleared land with 2 road frontages
Thanks for responding. I checked town website but no clue.
If we are getting bids like that that far north I wonder what it will be like closer to Toronto. Timber values right now are relatively low so I don't expect it was that unless there is some really valuable species on it which would only be apparent with an on site inspection.
What is interesting is that we had a similar high value east of North Bay recently. Maybe I will have to go up to Frank's favourite town to find a reasonable purchase price (see photo) (For newbies it is Moonbeam between Cochrane and Kapakasing and don't take my comment seriously as Frank is way too smart for that.)
At these prices life is going to get tough to make a buck on resale as we are almost at Dignam's market prices.
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A friend of mine was there during the bid opening session. According to him It was a local individual who won it.
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Does anyone have the results?
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Does anyone have the results?
They are not what you are going to like if I believe your bid is the one I think it is. :'(
(For Private message follow-up) Unlike OTS Jeff my fees are reasonable; a pint of cold liquid manufactured by Mr. Molson or Mr. Labatt or cancellation of the Timmies coffee I owe you to be collected next time I visit my parents gravesite. ;D
For a coffee or cold pint I can give you a complete breakdown of all bids by PM but it will not be in the public domain as I am not prepared to release this detailed quality of information in public. (I will release to others on the board by PM I recognize but do not want to post it to lurkers, because I reserve the right to bid myself)
I am assuming you are interested in 993 Maple Grove, Harrow. Winning Bid:
$180,00 - 22 bids in all
I believe your bid was at the bottom of the top 10 as there were 10 bids in total over $100,000. Refer to my Chisolm post about current market pricing.
The Guy who will be really mad is the person who bid $143,000 for 14 Wilson. He was the only bidder and could have got it for $41,475 and save himself over $100,000. He can't even do a deal with the second place bidder because there isn't one.
No bids on the rest.
Now that bids are over; G2020 could you explains to rest of board quality of properties up for tender in your own words. Any other comments welcome.
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A friend of mine was there during the bid opening session. According to him It was a local individual who won it.
If the successful bidder was the person who owns the adjacent property (with road access), I think they got an OK deal.
The minimum on this was $4574.48. This is landlocked 2nd growth bush; only access is "old logging road" more or less following unopened RA; at least 1/4 mi since its 2nd lot from actual road. And about 20-25 ac is wetland, soon to be EP ? since they have already past their draft official plan - entire are is "candidate ANSI".
Per MLS, land with road frontage goes for a little over $1k per acre, so maybe $300/ac for "useless" property isn't overpaying ? (taxes are "about $400" according to township clerk).
If anyone is interested in more "useless" ;D property, I have landlocked property available in the Greater Sudbury Area I would consider selling for $200 an acre. (pm me for me details if interested).
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If anyone is interested in more "useless" ;D property, I have landlocked property available in the Greater Sudbury Area I would consider selling for $200 an acre. (pm me for me details if interested). [/quote]
For $300 an acre I will even sell someone Useful property with year round road access and power line with bell telephone. I will even throw in the bears and moose for free. You can even get good revenue from the logs. Photos are of North Boundary which goes for a long way. (75 acres)
Given that it is Northern Property I can confirm the Beer Store is a short 15 - 20 minute drive depending if you drive like people from the North or the south. ;D