Does property with a lot of right of ways have any value?

[Dave2]

If you look at several of the property listings recently there seems to be a number that maybe attractive but they are subject to rights of way by a number of parties.  An example is a waterfront property that is used by owners of interior lots for access to the water.  Examples are of lots in Tay and ottonabee south monaghan

The question I have is there a way to in effect allocate part of the property for personal use.  I recognize that the size of the property has a bearing on the question.  You will have a better chance with a larger property then with a smaller property.  

I suggest we focus on properties that have that as the only issue.  For example if you look at
the south monaghan tax sale Lot 164 it has 555 feet of waterfront frontage and is 4.2 acres.  Looking quickly at a topographical map it looks buildable from a terrain perspective.

Is there a way to in effect say take half for own use and let the other half be used by right of way holders.  Eg. erect a fence around the half you want.  

NOTE IN REAL LIFE IN THE EXAMPLE MENTIONED THE ACTUAL PROPERTY HAS A SECOND RESTRICTION THAT OF DESIGNATED "OPEN SPACE" SO DON'T GET TEMPTED.  UNFORTUNATELY THEY
HAVE PROTECTED THE USERS FROM US SO CALLED VULTURES.  

ASSUME WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS SECOND RESTRICTION FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.

COMMENTS?

[Frank]

If you look at several of the property listings recently there seems to be a number that maybe attractive but they are subject to rights of way by a number of parties.  An example is a waterfront property that is used by owners of interior lots for access to the water.  Examples are of lots in Tay and ottonabee south monaghan

The question I have is there a way to in effect allocate part of the property for personal use.  I recognize that the size of the property has a bearing on the question.  You will have a better chance with a larger property then with a smaller property. 

I suggest we focus on properties that have that as the only issue.  For example if you look at
the south monaghan tax sale Lot 164 it has 555 feet of waterfront frontage and is 4.2 acres.  Looking quickly at a topographical map it looks buildable from a terrain perspective.

Is there a way to in effect say take half for own use and let the other half be used by right of way holders.  Eg. erect a fence around the half you want. 

NOTE IN REAL LIFE IN THE EXAMPLE MENTIONED THE ACTUAL PROPERTY HAS A SECOND RESTRICTION THAT OF DESIGNATED "OPEN SPACE" SO DON'T GET TEMPTED.  UNFORTUNATELY THEY
HAVE PROTECTED THE USERS FROM US VULTURES. 

ASSUME WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS SECOND RESTRICTION FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES.

COMMENTS?

Assuming we didn't have the second restriction, I would talk to the town about accepting a portion of the property as a public park, which would then give all citizens an access to the lake....in conjunction of course with those people who have an acquired right of access across your property waiving the access as a result.

If the second restriction was in place, I would be talking to the town about a rezoning as well for the portion which you want to build on.  The town's objective is to preserve as much waterfront and access thereto in the public domain as possible...from that perspective, they might want to have all of your water frontage, and an access wide enough to get in, or even a nice parkette window (provided they named it 'Also Dave Park'.   I wouldn't offer up the latter, or all of the water frontage at first blush, but keep it as an ace in the hole if they balk, at you giving them that 8 foot wide strip that you started with.   I currently have an approval to sever a property from a town based only on the Town's wishes to accept a deed for a snowmobile trail that runs through the middle of my property - just waiting for the snomobile club to agree to pay a portion of the survey. 

[bobs]

The question of properties with right of ways to many parties is simple in my mind.  Stay away!  If the deed is worded that these parties have right of way over the whole property and not just access to the water over the property you are SOL for building.  The only way a township would issue a building permit is if you some how got every single person that has access to agree to give up there access.  I have no idea who would agree to this unless it involved lots of cash.

The main issue is liability.  If any person who has deeded access to your property injures themselves or has property damage you are liable.  A pretty high risk if you ask me.

I have first hand experience with this so tell me I'm wrong if you wish I wont take offence but I would definitely stay away from any properties with this stipulation.

[Jayz]

Assuming we didn't have the second restriction, I would talk to the town about accepting a portion of the property as a public park, which would then give all citizens an access to the lake....in conjunction of course with those people who have an acquired right of access across your property waiving the access as a result.
... ...

Don't those ROW holders have a say when you and the town reach an agreement to "give all citizens access to the lake"? If it's only between you and the town, I think the chance is greater provided you're willing to pay to the town (only an access to general public may not be enough since a number of people have the right already), since generally speaking most of the land was originally sold to private owners by gov't at some point.

A fellow I spoke with this morning has a 13 ac with 800 ft waterfront. He applied to have it severed into several lots. The town agrees only if he surrenders a lot for public access to the lake.

[Frank]

A fellow I spoke with this morning has a 13 ac with 800 ft waterfront. He applied to have it severed into several lots. The town agrees only if he surrenders a lot for public access to the lake.

I think that is what I said.  If it serves the public interest, then the town will assist.

[Dave2]

The question of properties with right of ways to many parties is simple in my mind.  Stay away!  If the deed is worded that these parties have right of way over the whole property and not just access to the water over the property you are SOL for building.  The only way a township would issue a building permit is if you some how got every single person that has access to agree to give up there access.  I have no idea who would agree to this unless it involved lots of cash.

The main issue is liability.  If any person who has deeded access to your property injures themselves or has property damage you are liable.  A pretty high risk if you ask me.

I have first hand experience with this so tell me I'm wrong if you wish I wont take offence but I would definitely stay away from any properties with this stipulation.

The problem here as I read it is that the people with the right of way are the existing Island property owners not the town. (There are almost 200 of them) I think they would like to keep the right of access RESTRICTED to them (and their guests) and not invite the general public in.  Not certain the town's position on this one and my discussions don't give me a lot of confidence on which to base a bidding strategy.  (Particularly as the general public say from Toronto will not be voters in a municipal election.  This is what is so frustrating about this one.  (Looks like a lot of opportunity but it is always just beyond reach. )

I am reminded of the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner: " Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink."    I tend to agree with Jayz.  The town I might be able to work with. Its the other property owners who have the Right of Way I cannot find a solution for.

If someone has a bright idea send me a private post.   On this one the it looks like you could spend more on legals then on property purchase.

[DRD]

There was a fifty acre property on loon lake in Dysart (haliburton) that was sold in a tax sale quite a number of years ago with this situation. The new owner was going to change this and if that did not work he was going to buy the rite of ways back and money did not seem to be a problem.....this exact property was up for tax sale again about two years ago.   The morale of the story is whatever he tried didn't work


   Good Luck Though!!