Life Lease

[Watcher]

Hello Everyone!
Thanks for the information on this site.

I bought a Tax sale property several years ago.
Not sure if I ever received anything other then the tax bill.
I find out a LIFE LEASE was never cleared. I assumed the person was dead.
This is not the case. They want compensated for the lot from me now.

Can I go back and find out what happened in the cities history?
Any help or suggestions would be great!

Thanks

[netpred]

Now that's a new one.

I don't know if the Municipal Act addresses this issue. It might so check. However, assuming that you get the property subject to a life interest (again, this may not be correct) the easy solution is to wait for the life tenant to die. Often these interests are left to widows and other elderly people.

[Frank]

Hello Everyone!
Thanks for the information on this site.

I bought a Tax sale property several years ago.
Not sure if I ever received anything other then the tax bill.
I find out a LIFE LEASE was never cleared. I assumed the person was dead.
This is not the case. They want compensated for the lot from me now.

Can I go back and find out what happened in the cities history?
Any help or suggestions would be great!

Thanks

New one on me.  I'd go see a good lawyer real quick.  Life leases are like ownership, and the right to occupy is transferred on death.   Seems to me that they lost their interest by not paying the taxes.  You'd best get a legal begal to look into it.  Why has it taken you this long?

[Jayz]

Isn't that considered a private lien so shouldn't have survived the tax sale in the first place?

[Frank]

Isn't that considered a private lien so shouldn't have survived the tax sale in the first place?

I guess that was kinda my point...life lease is a form of ownership, registered on title, and should have disappeared with the issuance of a tax deed.  Really should be no problem here, but he will have to defend his title, and best be prepared.

[speedfreeksteve]

I would personally just ignore them and not waste your time on this. If a life lease could survive a tax sale then everyone could just life lease their properties to one of their relatives and stop paying taxes.

[Jayz]

I would personally just ignore them and not waste your time on this. If a life lease could survive a tax sale then everyone could just life lease their properties to one of their relatives and stop paying taxes.

Very good point!

[Dave2]

I would personally just ignore them and not waste your time on this. If a life lease could survive a tax sale then everyone could just life lease their properties to one of their relatives and stop paying taxes.

Very good point!

Watcher:
A simple question.  What type of documentation do they have to support their claim?  Do they have a copy of the lease and have they presented it to you?  If you haven't already I would have your lawyer or even yourself do a title search.  

Depending on the time that has passed there maybe statute of limitations issues here as a defence but generally I think the general expiration of existing claims under a tax sale offers the best potential.

[DRD]

Watcher:

How long ago was this tax sale? Conditions are pretty clear if sold under the municipal tax act of 2001 or later, but prior all interests would have been left on deed due to the 1 year grace period in which they had to "buy back". I would take Daves advice and do a up to date tittle search.

Doug

[Watcher]

I do have the paper work. Short for of Conveyance Act between Mr x & Mrs X.
Schedule "A"
Gives Description of Property
Clause is as follows:
Subject to a right to use and enjoy the said lands and premises
in favor of Mr. X during his lifetime, provided that
the said Mr X. shall not use and enjoy the said lands and
premises more than fifty percent of the days in any given year,
and provided that neither Mr X nor the person holding the fee simple
in the said lands and premises during the lifetime of Mr X shall permit
or allow any acts of waste on or deplete the said lands and premises in any manner.

According to the Township it is an easement and only to be removed if Mr X agrees or dies.
The Land Registry office will not remove either.
I believe it is an agreement between Mr & Mrs X. If someone got the extra from the sale then this
should remove any rights. Will have to start building the underground bunkie.
Only way to remove would be to go to Supreme Court.

[netpred]

This is quite interesting. It seems that the Township has tried to make the tax sale subject to this quasi-life interest (it does not look like a true life interest).

I have one piece of advice. Do not rely on anything posted here. Speak to a lawyer - you need one. You can get 1/2 hour of meeting with a lawyer for free. Call the Lawyer Referral Service. Look under "Law Society of Upper Canada " in the White Pages. There is a small charge added to your phone bill, but you will be provided with the name of a lawyer who will give you 30 minutes of his/her time free of charge. Do yourself a big favour and take this advice.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

[Pfm1011]

Did the parties actually exchange payment on the initial lease ?    and I believe annual payments are required under all life leases. ( I had a house in the UK that required a payment of 3 peppercorns a year , ( it appears to have run in arrears since 1921)

. Do you have a copy of the  actual contract  ? When was this entered into and when did you buy the land


"neither Mr X nor the person holding the fee simple in the said lands and premises during the lifetime of Mr X shall permit
or allow any acts of waste on or deplete the said lands and premises in any manner "


If I read this correctly ...

The neglect to pay the taxes would be an "act of waste" or the failure to fix up the house ..  Both void the lease..It does not matter if it was the land owner of the lease holder..either way

:Harmful or destructive use of real property by one in rightful possession of the property.

Waste is an unreasonable or improper use of land by an individual in rightful possession of the land. A party with an interest in a parcel of land may file a civil action based on waste committed by an individual who also has an interest in the land. Such disputes may arise between life tenants and remainderpersons and landlords and tenants. The lawsuit may seek an Injunction to stop the waste, damages for the waste, or both. Actions based on waste ordinarily arise when an owner of land takes exception to the manner in which the possessor or tenant is using the land.

The four common types of waste are voluntary, permissive, ameliorating, and equitable waste. Voluntary waste is the willful destruction or carrying away of something attached to the property. In an action for voluntary waste, the plaintiff must show that the waste was caused by an affirmative act of the tenant. Such waste might occur if a life tenant (a person who possesses the land for his lifetime, after which a remainderperson takes possession) chops down all the trees on the occupied land and sells them as lumber.

Voluntary waste will also occur, for example, if the tenant of an apartment removes kitchen appliances that are attached to the apartment floors and walls. More commonly, the tenant breaks a window, damages walls or woodwork, or otherwise damages the apartment. Landlords typically protect against this type of voluntary waste by requiring a damage or security deposit from the tenant at the commencement of the lease. When the tenant vacates the apartment, the landlord inspects for waste. If the apartment has been damaged, the landlord will use part or all of the deposit for repairs. If the damage exceeds the deposit, however, the landlord may file an action seeking damages for the repairs not covered by the deposit.

Permissive waste is an injury caused by an omission, rather than an affirmative act, on the part of the tenant ( In this case both owner and tenant). This type of waste might occur, for example, if a tenant permits a house to fall into disrepair by not making reasonable maintenance repairs.
Ameliorating waste is an alteration in the physical characteristics of the premises by an unauthorized act of the tenant that increases the value of the property. For example, a tenant might make improvements that increase the value of the property, such as remodeling a bathroom. Generally, a tenant is not held liable if she commits this type of waste.

Equitable waste is a harm to the reversionary interest in land that is inconsistent with fruitful use. This Cause of Action is recognized only by courts of Equity and is not regarded as legal waste in courts of law. For example, if the life tenant begins to cut down immature trees, the remainderperson, who will someday take possession of the property, may file an action in equity seeking an injunction to stop the cutting. The remainderperson would argue that the cutting imperils the productive use of the land in the future, because the value of the land after the immature trees have been cut would be decreased.

In an action for waste, a plaintiff commonly will seek damages for acts that have already occurred and request an injunction against future acts. A court will order an injunction if it finds that irreparable harm will occur and that the legal remedy would be inadequate, unless otherwise provided by statute. Certain laws provide for temporary relief if acts of waste are either threatened or committed.

The ordinary measure of damages for waste is the diminution in value of the property to the nonpossessor as a result of the acts of the possessor. This is frequently difficult to measure, particularly in situations where a significant period of time will elapse before the plaintiff is entitled to actual possession





Additionally the leaseholder was advised of the tax sale and chose not to redeem or take any actions to protect the property,  By failing to act they negligently allowed waste to the property

I am not a lawyer but I would turn it around, demand they remove the lease documents from the title forthwith as any interest they had in the land was voided by permissive  and negligent waste of the property in contravention to conditions of schedule A  


Explain politely but firmly that their interest went out the door when the former  "fee simple holder"  and themselves allowed the property to go tax sale.  I presume there is also a premises that they did not maintain.


 Give them 30 days to comply and provide a full release of any claims on the property  Be sure to mention you will hold them liable for any damages should a sale be prevented by their actions ..... If they have any brains they will walk away as they have no grounds
  Be sure to send by registered mail or courier signature required. Make sure it marked CC to your lawyer

 this presumes you can write a good legal sounding letter , If you cant then just have you lawyer do it.  


At thirty days to the minute have your lawyer nail them with a demand and reduce the compliance time to 5 days


  Try not going  to a lawyer right now as he will escalate this to a fight and the two lawyers will eventually own the land . Both scumbags will tell each of you you have a good case then start the 1000 dollar an hour ( 500 each )  bullsh*t sessions and then a year or two from now this will end when the clowns back off..unless they spend too much and get into a fight to the death as they cant afford to lose   (as the lawyer look at the 2010 porsche brochure).


this isnt a supreme court case,  its  a simple provincial matter 



Free advice worth every penny

[Dave2]

Watcher:

In a case like this I for one need a better understanding of the particulars before I can give you advice.  Specifically:

a) What type of property are we talking about? Eg. rural
b) How big;  1/4 acre versus 150 acreas makes a big difference
c) Does it have a dwelling or improvements
d) Most importantly what does your neighbour with the lease really want and does that bother you.?
e) If it is on title you obviously should have known about it as part of the title search process?
    (I don't want to sound like I am critical but the key time to sort out one of these is before you take title not after, unless that is part of your plan.)

I have a different approach then some of my fellow board members;. Before I hire expensive lawyers I want to see if if there is another cheaper solution. 

Every time I buy tax sale property I get neighbours; some of which have got in the habit of using my land in the past because obviously the former owner didn't care.   

They have ranged from simple things like picking mushrooms for which he has my official permission as long as he keeps a watch on the property to growing green plants that the OPP are interested in.  We had a mano a mano talk as the spanish say. 

My daddy said it best; wars are easier to start then to stop;  The stick can always be used after the carrot. 

[netpred]

A good competent lawyer is the best, and cheapest, investment that you will ever make. Good and effective representation has made me a lot of money and saved me a lot of money. I am sure that everyone here means well, but before you take anyone's advice you should ask them what law school they attended and how long they have practiced law. In addition, you should note that lawyers are insured so that if they provide any negligent service or advice, there is an insurance company to pick up the tab. The final comment is if you need surgery, do you go to a doctor or do it yourself using often contradictory internet advice?

If you do this type of thing or anything with properties, you absolutely need a good and competent lawyer to do it right, especially when something unusual pops up. Make sure that the lawyer that you consult is competent and ethical. The large firms are expensive for small investors so be dilligent in your search.

[Pfm1011]

, you should note that lawyers are insured so that if they provide any negligent service or advice, there is an insurance company to pick up the tab. The final comment is if you need surgery, do you go to a doctor or do it yourself using often contradictory internet advice?
.

First the lawyers actually own lpic,( lawyers insurance company)  good luck with that..when a lawyer screws up, another lawyer is given the file by Lpic.. The second lawyer then milks the file for a year and tries every way to screw you, If you have a cut and dry smoking gun fraud case against a lawyer you will maybe get 50 to 75 cents after a year ..this is presuming you have the money to hire a lawyer to fight the insurance company..yes you have to pay a lawyer to get the lawyers insurance company, which is owned by lawyers , to pay you for the damage caused by a crooked or incompetent lawyer..So if a lawyer screws you for 100K it will cost at least 100 more to recover it and take one to two years..  Now if the lawyer completely wipes you out, you wont have the money to sue and therefore you are screwed..sorry no insurance..

Insurance my ass..   ....  I have very good personal knowledge of a case where the lawyer emptied the trust accounts, forged contract and stole almost a mil  .. (15 years ago) When the Law society finally started to actually look into this, 6 months after the first fraud complaint..the lawyer put a 45 to his temple and blew his brains out..The insurance company tried to get out of paying on the grounds that " he is no longer under our jurisdiction"  Two years later they finally paid out to about half the people who could afford to fight ..LPIC defence was that since he killed himself, he could not defend himself and he was not actually convicted so they should not have to pay the insurance claim. ..

I can assure you it is now worse for the victims due to increases in LPIC claims and therefore LPIC fights harder.

The best lawyer is one you can avoid at all costs but sometimes you have absolutely no choice as you run up against an idiot who takes your lack of using a lawyer as a sign you cant afford a fight..