Water Access

[Bitty]

My hubby was able to get out and see this property.  While I won’t lie and say we aren’t caught up in all the hoopla, who ever ends up with this property will have a lot of constraints to deal with.

First the good points, the lake is nice, it’s close to Toronto, the property is picturesque and you could use a composting toilet.

Now the bad, the property is small!  It’s not much bigger than our lot in Toronto and it is indeed steep.  We spoke with the building department and any new construction would have to be 66’ from the shoreline and ten feet from the sides.  This means that even if you could build new, the max width is 35’.  Based on what my hubby can recollect, he can’t be sure if the property goes back this far before you hit the mountain.

If the existing facility is 50’ from the shoreline, you can build onto the sides and the back.  There may be about 10 feet that could be added on to the back before the mountain rises up.  You can’t build a second story.  So if the existing structure is less than 50’ from the shoreline, the existing shack is all you get.  My husband is a carpenter and he says the existing shack would definitely need to come down.

We also spoke with the Health department and there is no septic and even if you could get approval, the land is all bedrock so that won’t happen.  If you put in a grey water leaching bed, you will need to bring in soil to cover it or you could have a pit drilled, which would also be cost prohibitive.  There is no barge that empties holding tanks on that lake so that is not an option.

We found a property on the same lake listed for $275k with 588’ of frontage and just over 4 acres.  It has year round road access and telephone and hydro.  When you compare that to .24 acres of water access property it doesn’t compute.  If you do the math, the $275k property is worth $68k per acre and a mere $17k for a ¼ acre and this is with road access, telephone and hydro.

We are still interested in the property, although I’m somewhat put off by the steepness of it (I have ms and I’m not too keen on stairs!), we are still thinking about putting in a bid, although, given the amount of interest that has been generated, I wonder if it is worth it.  If the property could be obtained at a discount that would be great, but unfortunately, there is no way we could afford market prices.  At the end of the day, this excercise has been a great learning process so we have only gained in that respect.

p.s. This board has been very valuable in my research, thanks all.

[suede22]

New to this site but I too have seen this much talked about property.

Given all of it's challenges it may not be for everyone but something unusual came up and I thought about posting this note in search of answers.

According to the municipality there may be an outstanding lean on this property. They could not expand on the information although I am concerned about eventually having to deal with it. Does anyone know what should be done before making an offer?

Is this usual to have to search a property before the tender and if so, who is best to take care of it?

Any info would be appreciated,

[Rob]

It is advisable to do a title search on the property.  There may be a federal lien on the property and you will be responsible for the amount if you win the bid.  So that 20,000 lake front property may endup costing you 60,000 extra.

The cost of a title search is from $35.00 and up.  If you search the forum there is a thread discussing title searches and, a few links to online search firms.

[Woody]

I wonder about that many people going to one property asking around.

First, it is going to alert the property owner about the seriousness of the tax problem they have and encourage them to pay up (if the message haven't truly been understood prior). 

Secondly,  it is going to get a lot of the neighbors interested, involved and talking.

Third, it is one thing to have a person quietly visiting the property and perhaps visiting the property and trespassing.  It is another to have 60 people trespassing and attracting attention.


A better approach for all of your tax sale property hunters might be if the first group of people who visit the property when it is first posted,

I checked out the 126 ac in Kennebec today.  Waterfront on Crotch is steep (drops about 60' over a span of 80')  Nice and flat up top, but rocky, very little soil. 
Note: road frontage is on Cranberry Lake Rd. not Crotch Lake Trail.  There is power, and phone to the end of Crotch Lake Trail.
If ROW could be attained, it would be relatively easy to extend Crotch Lake Trail to the WF portion of the lot and build a cottage with a great view, but very steep shore line.

Tree cover:  Firewood/Pulp only, mainly oak, sparse cover, rocky outcrops, no saw logs. Possibly logged hard years ago or, terrain does not support growth.  Basal area <5 on majority, low branching, grass cover etc.

Terrain:  Rock/swamp, little soil.  Swamp in middle running N/S, property on West side of the swamp has similar tree cover, no access to this portion, cut off by swamp from the East, Cut off by other property owner to  north (posted no trespassing).  Estimate swamp to be 40 - 50 ac.

If anyone comes across a nicely treed property, let me know.
Woody.

[Frank]

Good work Woody

I haven't been to it yet, but I got the package and it is assessed at $44,000 with a minimum bid of $12,993.08.  I would suggest that you do a lot of research into it's possibilities before determining its true worth. 


I also found out that the two cottage lots on Kennebec lake (assessed about $35,000 each with minimum bids of about $9,000) have crown liens attached - be very careful on these two folks. 

Most of the other lots that are going for about $5,000 are only assessed at about $7,000  -  this is a very low margin so you better do some research into what they are really worth first.

They have a dump which I don't believe will sell (or it least it is near a dump).   As well there are two houses - generally low value, it their condition is questionable.  The first sits on a quarter acre in the middle of nowhere, and the second while it is on an acre has a notation about a former gas station on the site (possible contamination and big clean-up bill).

keep smilin' 

[RichD]

Thanks Woody/Frank,

I just got the package too and was thinking of headding that way soon to take a look too.

[GregM]

Thanks for sharing that information, Woody!

Guys, what about that 4.5 acre property that was listed in the summer on Mazinaw Lake? No bids were submitted on that? Did anyone find anything wrong with that property?

Just curious.

Greg

[JulyB]

Hi Frank,

I also found out that the two cottage lots on Kennebec lake (assessed about $35,000 each with minimum bids of about $9,000) have crown liens attached - be very careful on these two folks. 

Do you know how much the crown lien is?

Most of the other lots that are going for about $5,000 are only assessed at about $7,000  -  this is a very low margin so you better do some research into what they are really worth first.

Yes, you mentioned in one of the topics that you earned money by purchasing properties from owners at the price around the assessed value.  That means there may be some rooms for us to flip .....

Again, we have to do our homework.

Thanks again, Frank!

[Frank]

As to the amounts of the crown liens - sorry, no idea.   I heard they were there, and you will have to satisfy yourself as to the amounts via your search.  They may be duplicates as well, if you find that the owner of both is the same person then it may be that the crown has placed the same lien on all of his properties and therefore if you bought both the amount they would want is half on each - you need to do your homework if you are interested.

We have a system of 'market value' assessment in Ontario that is supposed to represent the approximate value of property based on comparative sales.  It doesn't always, and in some cases I have purchased property that ended up being worth far more than the assessed value - but don't count on it in every situation.  The assessments in Kennebec may wel be correct,  - as I said, you should satisfy yourself as to the true worth of the property - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[suede22]

 

I attended the reading of the tenders for the Kushog property and thought I would tell you all how it went.
There were a lot of viewpoints on the water access property and it's worth.... well, hold on to your hat.

Whapping $80,100.00 for the 55 ft wide lot with a shack. Nice but is it a deal at that price.

I wish my offer of less would have won but kudos to the person that know what they want.

Seems more like a real estate deal than a tax sale.

[Frank]

That is incredible, after reviewing the site information I wouldn't have bid more than 35 - hoping to maybe sell it for 50.  It just goes to show that the cottage ownership dream is still alive and well, and has definitely expanded far beyond Muskoka.  This reminds me of the one on French River last year - it wouldn't sell on the market for 80 (I bid 57), and some yahoo came in at 101 - go figure  .

[serendipity]

80K???  Are you serious?  I never would have thought it would go that high.  I'm glad I got out of that process before shelling out coin on title searchs, etc...  I was thinking in the mid-high 30's as well but after what I heard I decided to let it go. 

my wife keeps telling me that we can rent a cottage for a month every summer for 50 years cheaper than buying/building one and still have money left over for a trip/year.  she's right but it's just not the same as owenership...  not the same at all.  one day.

[Rob]

For that type of money you could rent out a cottage for many summer and be completely happy and not worry about taxes, maintenance and all other expenses.  But on the other side you won't get to sell your property in 30 years, reap the profit (and pay the capital gains).  Life is about finding that balance.

[gap]

My first venture in real estate (other than my home) was a waterfront lot in Muskoka I bought for 30k 6 years ago.  It doubled in value immediately.  I built a beautiful cottage and now it's worth big bucks-amazing amount of equity.   Now, I rent it out to other people for 1/2 of the summer, use the cash to pay all my expenses, use it for the other 1/2 of the summer and spend every possible moment of every weekend there for the rest of the year.   I own it, it's mine and it's a second home - one we could eventually retire to.  My arrangement with the summer rentals (and occasional year round rentals) pays off all my bills.   This means access for 1/2 the summer for me is free.
Just recently, I got an offer to rent it for the whole summer 25k (!!!), but I decided we needed some summer family fun and it wouldn't be worth it.
Just  my two cents....I've realized real estate is the way to go.

[Frank]

A neighbouring property on my small Muskoka lake rents his place out all summer long for $3,200 per week.  Extra if you want the aluminum boat and motor.   We plan on building next spring, but I don't think I'll be renting - that won't leave any time left for me to use the place.