SUBJECT TO EXECUTION 99-99999, IF ENFORCEABLE

[sam123]

I've been following taxsaleproperty.org for years....learning by absorbing what you gents have to say, but I've never seen a reference to "SUBJECT TO EXECUTION 92-009999, IF ENFORCEABLE".  I made up the numbers for the example, but what is it referring to?   Is it a lien?  If so, why would a city/township bother posting it?
Thanks

[g2020]

Although someone like netpred or Dave2 can probably give a more detailed explanation, this is what I have observed. When property was moved from Land Registry to the new automated Land Titles system the owners of the parcels being transferred were checked to see if there were executions (claims or judgements) registered against them. To register a deed in the old land registry system you were not required to check for executions, that is do a search with the sheriffs office for judgements, when you registered a deed - you just registered what ever you wished, the registrar did not care since they were not certifying (guaranteeing) the title. Under the new system all property, not just that in northern Ontario, and new subdivisions as in the past, became certified by the land register because all parcels of land in Ontario are now in the Land Titles. Those of us who were not lawyers just registered whatever we liked. At one time we used to receive two copies of our tax deeds in the mail - we would then register them the next time we were in that area, or attach an affidavit and stick them in the mail for registration. Nobody checked executions back then - we were young and knew everything. The properties that were moved to Land Titles became known as qualified land titles and part of their new description includes executions that were discovered when the parcels were transferred. When you see these "subject to executions 9999999 if enforceable" all you are reading is the legal description that the municipality has copied from the descriptor at the top of the parcel register. When you search these executions you may find nothing since they have expired, they may not be the type of execution that a tax deed is subject to and thus your lawyer may remove them, or they could represent interests of the crown in which case your tax deed may be a piece of sh@;.

[netpred]

g2020:

It appears that your analysis is as always, quite excellent. I, a relative newbie and amateur, have certainly learned a thing or two from long timers such as you. I only wish that you and others like you, would be more active with your insights. That way people wouldn't have to listen to big mouths like me who think that they know it all.

[sam123]

I recently won a tax sale and the description of the property ALSO includes the text "SUBJECT TO EXECUTION 99-99999, IF ENFORCEABLE" - but with a real lien number.  It turned out the the lien was from Ontario Legal Aid which is not a crown corporation so it doesn't transfer.  However, in processing the land transfer form, the treasurer at the municipality is keeping it on the description.  I called him to ask why he's looking for me to sign for a description that is not accurate, and he said that is between me and the registry office. The lien is in the description that exists now, and so he says he needs to keep it intact to transfer.
I phoned the registry office and they said they couldn't comment.  They asked what my barrister suggested and when I said I was just looking for the description to accurately reflect the property, they said property descriptions are updated by registry officers upon processing. 
I have to figure that since the township hired Realtax Inc to process this stuff, they can do this in a knit.  I have the feeling that once things get set, they are hard to get corrected and cost lawyer money...which just seems unneccesary for this.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks

[Dave2]

I recently won a tax sale and the description of the property ALSO includes the text "SUBJECT TO EXECUTION 99-99999, IF ENFORCEABLE"

However, in processing the land transfer form, the treasurer at the municipality is keeping it on the description.  I called him to ask why he's looking for me to sign for a description that is not accurate, and he said that is between me and the registry office. The lien is in the description that exists now, and so he says he needs to keep it intact to transfer.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks

Sam:

A few general observations:

a) The land titles system appears to have been done more sloppily done then I would have hoped for as I believe that there is some historic garbage that was transferred without being cleaned up for all properties including tax sales.  Fortunately a tax sale cancels most liens except government liens.   Be thankful you don't have a regular purchase and sale.  

a) While the tax sale cancels this lien from title the municipality is under no obligation
to remove it from the title.  I have a headache now with another tax sale property I purchased unrelated to yours now on a similar case that I have sold and the purchasers lawyer has refused to clear it because of an historic lien 50 year old from a company that is defunct and deregistered.    

Fortunately at the time of the tax sale purchase I got a declaration from the local sherriff that there were no current active liens against the property.  

b) A few suggestions: 1) We are doing a solution with my lawyer that we believe will apply to several thousand properties alone in my local county. (Northumberland)  

My lawyer will be in touch with the local bar to explain what we are doing and I am going to brief the local real estate agents.  

There is a lot of potential liability with this so I am not prepared to share the exact  details publically because I am not certain if my problem is exactly the same as yours from a legal perspective.  .  

2) Get your local sherif declaration and hold onto it. You may need it when you sell the property.

3) Fix it now don't wait until you sell the property.  In my case it will take 2 months to close; fortunately I have a seller who really wants this property and is willing to wait.  We also did not need any outside financing.  

4) For anyone selling property whether purchased by tax sale or otherwise; make sure these are stripped from title.  

5) Finally I am going to ask a question to OTS Jeff.  Any chance Realtax could clean up cases like this when title is transferred.  Sam and OTS Jeff I have no problem in talking some particulars via PM.  

Dave2

[Moe]

Excellent post and very good responses indeed!.
Being a regular customer of OTS, I would like to hear their official opinion here and Looking forward to it..

[OTS Jeff]

This is an excellent topic, and I'm glad that the issue was raised.

The official word from OTS is on the Frequently Asked Questions page of our website.  Here's a link to that page:

ontariotaxsales.ca/nc/how-to-buy-tax-sale-properties/frequently-asked-questions.html#irfaq_13_fbdaa

ontariotaxsales.ca/nc/how-to-buy-tax-sale-properties/frequently-asked-questions.html#irfaq_13_fbdaa

When you get to that page, please click on Subject to Executions if Enforceable"...

Best regards,

Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca

[sam123]

Fortunately, I'm an OTS member and I did purchase the OTS title search.  As I mentioned above, the registry office would barely speak to me.  Although an incident like this may be rare, to me, the support from OTS on this issue is a huge value.

[shah]

I have the similar situation for a Tax sale. It is not an execution but actually a mortgage. When the title is being transferred the existing mortgage (charge) is not removed by the Municipality lawyer. I am wondering now how do I get it removed from the title.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks.

[Moe]

I am totally with you netpred
How'bout 50% off coupon for the 'northern' title searches??(my christmas dream!)
any more suggestions? I have got time to read them all as I am on my holidays too

[Dave2]

I have the similar situation for a Tax sale. It is not an execution but actually a mortgage. When the title is being transferred the existing mortgage (charge) is not removed by the Municipality lawyer. I am wondering now how do I get it removed from the title. 

Unfortunately I stopped believing in Santa Claus some time ago (probably get at least 10 black marks) so I will return to original topic. 

I was cautious in an earlier response because of a personal experience that resulted in me wondering if registry offices all followed the same practices.  Any one got any experience / opinion. 

[shah]

I am told by the municipality that the mortgages will be removed automatically in a week or two when the Tax Deeds will be certified by the Land Registry. Is it true ? Anyone has any experience ?

[Frank]

You can keep asking the same question hoping for a different answer. Maybe someone will tell you what you want to hear, but the fact is if you want to delete a mortgage you must amend the register. Mortgages are not deleted automatically.

Perhaps the Shah doesn't want the old mortgage removed at all....why not pay off someone else's debt, if you can afford to.  If it were me, I'd have my lawyer file an application to amend the register...as has been recommended here a number of times.  There is nothing that requires the Treasurer to do this, so it is up to the purchaser to follow-up...as the sign on the bathroom wall reads...'The job ain't over till the paper-work is done'.   

[shah]

Thanks very much guys your help is very much appreciated. This forum is great resource of information for newbies like me.

I was going to talk to my lawyer as first suggested by netpred but the Municipal Account Manager who took care of the entire tax sale process gave me the above statement. It was hard to believe for me too. I will certainly talk to my lawyer for the application to remove the instruments from the title. No Frank, I can't afford to pay someone else mortgage!  

[sam123]

Despite all the negative postings I see about OTS (but not from a wide variety of readers), I am completely satisfied with their service. In fact, I'd highly recommend it. For the property I bought, OTS had it listed 3 weeks before this site. That's a huge window of time if you are going to go and see the site in person....and all the TSP regulars say every bidder should be personally visiting their prospective bidding properties. This site is great, and as a member, you get way more than you pay for, but if someone is going to look at tax sales at all seriously, you are best off with having a full time team of people doing some leg work for you.  The Ontario Tax Sales business is a tiny investment for the people with an interest in buying a tax sale property.

Back to the subject at hand:
Earlier in this string, "OTS Jeff" identified their policy (and support) on the issue of "SUBJECT TO EXECUTION...".  Sure enough, here I am three weeks later, with a copy of the abstract showing that all the liens and executions were removed by the registry office.  This was all because of a followup by OTS...and it's part and parcel to their commitment to help members get nits like this cleared up. On the other hand, my first thought was that I was going to have to get this fixed myself.....and that only meant lawyer time.  I suspect that if it went easy, it would have been $200 of lawyer cost. How much is the relief of a clean property description worth?