Sarnia

[Thinker]

Anybody knows anything about Sarnia properties? 
Any pics/info to share. thanks 

[Apex]

According to the municipality as of July 27 the properties were still available.
   302 Confederation St. is a former variety store which is vacant, it also has two apartments unknown if vacant.
   130 LaSalle Rd. is a vacant single family dwelling.
   363 Mitton St. S. is a vacant former gas station.
   1974 Wayne Ave is a vacant single family dwelling.
   Westgrove Dr. is a vacant remant piece of road left over when subdivision was built. It is not a building lot.
 
 I have not yet gone to see these properties. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

[Spicol]

1974 Wayne Ave is part of the Aamjiwnaang First Nation's reserve. I believe that non-natives are not allowed to live on a reserve and would assume those laws would also forbid ownership but it's not clear to me. Anyone know?

[jmac2007]

I'm not sure if it's actually part of Aamjiwnaang reserve or right next to it. That's probably not a major concern - However being in the "Chemical Valley" with dozens of massive industrial facilities spewing out smoke may be ....

Read this or the many other articles just like it.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070423/firstnation_ratio_070423/20070423/

First Nation concerned about startling birth ratio
Updated Mon. Apr. 23 2007 5:07 PM ET
Canadian Press

AAMJIWNAANG FIRST NATION, Ont. -- The people of the Aamjiwnaang First Nation are painfully aware they make up a startling statistic that has raised eyebrows around the world, but the bigger concern for residents are the chemicals they fear are overwhelming their community and killing off their legacy.

The birthrate ratio of boys to girls normally observed in communities falls close to an even split. In Aamjiwnaang, records show two girls are being born for every boy - a scientific anomaly that has stunned researchers and that residents admit is clearly not normal.

"Our sense of normal is not normal," said Ada Lockridge, chairwoman of the Aamjiwnaang environment committee, and a mother of two girls.

Visitors to this reserve just outside the southwestern Ontario border community of Sarnia, Ont., are struck by the sight of dozens of massive industrial facilities spewing out smoke and their close proximity to the First Nations community of about 850.

Residents live in an area known as chemical valley - Canada's largest cluster of chemical, allied manufacturing and research and development facilities - and co-exist with smoke stacks and nauseating smells that carry with the wind.

The girl-boy ratio anomaly has been the subject of international study, most recently in an article published in Environmental Health Perspectives this month based on the work of researchers from the U.S. and Japan.

"To our knowledge, this is a more significantly reduced sex ratio and greater rate of change than has been reported previously anywhere," the study reads.

While many residents are reluctant to talk openly about the lack of boys being born and the worldwide attention that's been focused on them it's something that just about everyone thinks about, said 67-year-old Wilson Plain, a father of four and grandfather of five.

Men are worried they will never have sons to carry on their family name and worse, that the lives of the entire community may be at risk.

"There's not a lot of conversation about it, most people are uncomfortable about talking about those results," he said.

"We got blue skies and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with where I'm sitting. But when I zero in on (the skewed birthrate and the nearby chemical plants) I ask myself: How long is my life going to last? Will I be hit with cancer?"

The phenomenon of an increasingly female reserve snuck up on everyone a few years ago. They were surprised to learn there were enough girls in the community to field three baseball teams while there would be only one boys' squad.

Lockridge thought of her own family - her two sisters have nine kids between them, of which there's only one boy - and started to get worried about what was happening in the community and the possible impacts of the surrounding industrial plants.

"Sometimes I wonder why we're still alive," she said.

"We always said, 'Ew, the air stinks,' but we never thought about what it could be doing to our health. We just thought somebody was watching out for us."

Local environmental consultant Ron Plain said all levels of government have done little to police the industry.

"We know absolutely that the technology is in place right now for an almost zero emission ... but industry gets away with using the excuse that it's not economically viable," Plain said.

Environmental Commissioner of Ontario Gord Miller helped facilitate a meeting with local residents and various municipal, provincial and federal government officials and said it's clear the people of Aamjiwnaang have reason for concern.

"People are living immediately adjacent to these industrial facilities. Literally, it's on the other side of the street," Miller said, adding that in other communities there would likely be a 300-metre zone between residential and industrial areas.

He said one of the problems in getting help for the community has been a jurisdictional battle between the provincial and federal governments.

When asked recently about his government's commitment to helping the community, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said, "I don't know a lot about that," and referred questions to the Ministry of Health.

Health Minister George Smitherman said the ministry and local public health officials are working together to develop strategies for the community.

Lockridge said the governments have known about their problems for years and have chose to do almost nothing.

Meanwhile, Ron Plain says the people of Aamjiwnaang wonder about their future with every breath they take - and he doubts their story will resonate with others for long.

"We'll be a blip on the news and the next day they'll talk about something else."

[Digger]

I've been doing some research into these properties and got to speak to someone who'd actually been inside 1974 Wayne in Sarnia, here's what I found....

1974 Wayne - has been vacant for approximately 2 years. Has nice curb appeal, and the roof was redone in the past 6 months, (that's the good news), the bad news is apparently there was some major leaking in the house (as in about a foot of water in the basement - their words not mine), and with the hydro cut off the sump pump wasn't working, as a result there is apparently black mold from floor to ceiling. This guy said all the drywall (floors and ceilings) would pretty much have to be torn out. He didn't know if that included the kitchen and bathroom though as he didn't see that.  So I guess you have to wonder why they decided to put a new roof on it if they were going to let it go for tax sale. The message I got was the inside didn't match the outside.  The other thing he said is that neighbourhood is nice to live in but because its so small no telcom company will bring in high speed internet - no way no how.  This guy lives in that community is its his biggest bug about it (that and the fact that he often has to go just out of the immediate area to get a cell phone signal). He said you sometimes do get a smell from the chemical plants but he's learned to live with it and didn't feel it was a big problem.

Good luck
Digger


 

[DJ]

Can you please specify the source of your information regarding the mold in the house?

[Apex]

I took a look at these properties on the weekend. If you look in the basement window at the back of 1974 Wayne Ave you can see the mold all over the floors walls and ceiling. The same with 130 Lasalle, if you look in the basement windows you'll actually see standing water, the whole basement is flooded.

[Thom]

Both properties (130 LaSalle, 1974 Wayne) are not on the reserve.  In the tender package you can see the boundry line for the reserve.  It starts at the end of wayne ave (marlborough street).

[Frank]

Both properties (130 LaSalle, 1974 Wayne) are not on the reserve.  In the tender package you can see the boundry line for the reserve.  It starts at the end of wayne ave (marlborough street).

You will never see properties that are physically located on a reserve up for tax sale since there are no Municipal taxes to be levied on them in the first place. 

What you need to know in this case is whether these properties are part of a First Nations land claim.  That may indeed be the reason for them having been vacated in the first place.  We are seeing this in the Caledonia area where property values have declined, and in some cases I understand the banks are reluctant to renew mortgages.  If people walk away, then eventually decay will set in.

You've only got a week left to do your homework, and this is something that I would want to know before I put in a bid of any sort.

[Thom]

Where would one start to find that information?  As you said, "time is of the essence"

[Frank]

Where would one start to find that information?  As you said, "time is of the essence"

I'd start here:      http://www.aboriginalaffairs.gov.on.ca/english/onas.htm

Check with locals, municipality, real estate, guy that runs the corner variety store.

[DJ]

Wouldn't the amount of mold suggest the houses may be uninhabitable and may have to be totally demolished?

[Frank]

Wouldn't the amount of mold suggest the houses may be uninhabitable and may have to be totally demolished?

That is quite possible.  The same sort of thing happens with grow-houses.  It may well be cheaper to demolish and start from scratch than to consider renovations in these cases - it really depends on the severity, and the amount of elbow grease you want to use.

I recently demolished a house on a property, and got more for the lot with the house gone than I would have with it still there.

When you are considering bidding on these sorts of properties you have to discount the house and taylor your bid to the value of the raw land,  is this a really desirable area to begin with, and you may have to pay for site remediation before you can actually do anything with it.   What would you pay for a lot in this area is the question you have to ask yourself - then bid lower to make sure you have room to cover unexpected costs, and/or provide a profit margin.

As they say:  location, location, location

[Thinker]

Thank you so much for all your replies.

After visiting the sarnia properties, I was thinking of bidding on the 1974 wayne Ave, which looked decent from outside. But after reading the discussions I am no longer interested in bidding on it.

Does anyone seen the property in Alnwick-Haldimand.  I am planning to go there on weekend but if anyone can tell me what to expect, it will save me a trip  .

Thanks.

 


 

[dvigs16]

Ive been watching the 4 properties in Sarnia, wondering if anyone got over to city hall to see what they went for? if so please post.
302 confederation
130 lasalle
1974 wayne ave
and the gas bar at mitton