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The latest Ontario postings that come up are early November, yet folks are discussing, for example, a recent listing in Hamilton. How can I ensure that I am seeing the most up-to-date listings on the Website? 

[Frank]

The latest Ontario postings that come up are early November, yet folks are discussing, for example, a recent listing in Hamilton. How can I ensure that I am seeing the most up-to-date listings on the Website? 

Municipalities are required to post their sales in the Ontario Gazette, and four consecutive weeks in a local paper.   Many, like Hamilton don't post on the Gazette until the very end - week before the sale, while this gives us very short notice, it also eliminates a lot of redeemed properties from their ad.    You will see people talking about a sale that has not been posted on this site, nor the Ontario Gazette (since that is where this site gets its info. - it is the only complete source), and that is usually because those folks are local and became aware of the sale through the local paper.

If you check the Ontario Gazette every weekend, you will see all of the latest offerings, in terms of tax sales, tax sale auctions, and sherrif's sales.    p.s. I'm pretty sure that we have posted this info. at least three times over the past year - read the prior posts and you will be full of knowledge.

[Sasha]

Hi Frank,

What are Sherrif's sales?

Sasha

[Pfm1011]

A sheriffs sale  is when the house has been seized and ordered sold by the court due to legal action. From lawsuits, to mechaincs liens  to unpaid mortgage. In a Sheriffs sale outstanding mortgages are still valid  as are mechanics liens  etc  so you really have to do your diligence , Full title searches etc or you can lose big time (no getting away with siimply logging on here and asking) . In addition if it is a matrimonial home, and the husband is sued, Only half of the house is sold, .

[Frank]

Thanks Pfm101 - what exactly does that stand foir?

I was hoping someone who knew more about sheriff's sales would step in.  In short they are forfeitures similar to tax sale, but without the relief from liens which we are accustomed to.  You might pay $1 for a property only to find out that there are liens which exceed its value...amongst a whole host of other problems.

If you are afraid of tax sales, and sheriff's sales,  then (I'm told) the only other way to acquire a property for less than market value would be to look at bank forclosures.  In those cases the banks want to get in and out quick, get whatever they can, and you get a clear deed in the end...without the hassles of tenants, etc..  I have no idea where you start, aside from calling a bank.

[Pfm1011]

PFM1011   ...Its an airline thing. Used to fly L1011's  and the PFM is Pure F*cking magic in regards to the design and flight characteristics. Every autoland was PFM


In regards to the sheriffs auctions,A good example of the bizarreness was a few weeks ago 60 or 70 acre farm up on the milton
escarpment went for sale. The husbands interest only .  So you would buy him out but him and the wife could still live there if they have any kids. You would eventually simply sell him back his half for probably less then you paid.

I read them all in the gazette but haven't chased anydown yet. The only advantage to them I can see is that if you found one you liked, and did lots of diligence . It "should " go under the value as very few people understand them.  The one advantage to the sheriff sales is the houses etc are worth allot more then a tax sale someone simply walked away from.  These people are being tossed out of their homes. Most are not simply bulldozer fodder like the Taxsale homes.

Also you wont be bidding against the "Power of Sale" people who tend to pay way over the value as they think they are getting a deal because it is POS. Some tax sales go over value , but the POS sales are out and out silly and usually go for 10 to 15 over what the house would be worth if it was mint. People don't understand that the banks ask 10 to 15% over value , based on if the house was mint, which they never are, in order to avoid being sued by the old owner.

Looked a a POS 2 weeks ago in Oakville, bank asked 899 because the house beside went for a mil ( it was twice the size and way better lot) House needed 200K to bring it up to 750   (1988 house ,Everything original builder, including the peeling roof) ( Others on the street went for 717 and 780 in the last year and they were reno'd)

A moron came in and payed 879 , thought they were being smart by knocking 20 off,  They were 300K over the true value.

 It so smells of the 1989 crash over again. I'm in Oakville , If you cant sell your house for a Mil. Simply re list at 4 mil and some idiot will lowball you with 3.5 and think they got a deal. Absolute insanity in the high end market out here. No rhyme or reason.

 Another one in Mississauga right now . POS with 1.1 mortgage, house beside, which is bigger and nicer just sold for 1.3 They are asking 1.7 on the POS and some idiot will come in and pay 1.6 thinking they got a deal since it was POS.

Note: POS has two meanings and they usually both apply.



As per Foreclosures: There are very few in Canada as the banks don't want to take possession and ownership of the property. They use POS and the sheriffs auctions . Very rare for a Quit claim or full foreclosure. Banks dont want to put people out and cant profit on a foreclosure like they can in the states .  (250,000 last month)

In the states the banks foreclose, and sell the house and keep all the profits. Canada they POS and then the owner gets whats left over . The sheriff auctions are used when the money is owed to the bank for something outside a mortgage. IE business loan with personal guaranty. Again sheriff sells and then the bank gets their money, the change goes to the owner but usually there is a line of creditors ready to scoop the change up.  In theory you can buy the property after the Royal Bank sues for an unpaid business loan and the bank still has a mortgage on top that still applies and still has to be paid by new owner... DUE DILIGENCE!!!!!

[speedfreeksteve]

My real estate lawyer told me much the same thing after many of his clients recounting stories of Sheriff's sales. The bidding apparently is very fast and loose with people getting caught up in the excitement more often than not. I was told that it's a waste of time for a disciplined real estate investor to go to since you'll be outbid everytime by someone less disciplined.

POS is hit and miss in my experience. In a depressed area and depressed economy it can work out. I got my first condo in Toronto for $53000 about 10 years ago. It was a power of sale, just not a very hot condo market at the time.