Crown Liens

[farrouk]

Could any of the pros help me out with this one.
Lets say you found out a property you were looking at had a crown lien on it. You bid low taking the lein into consideration. You won the tender and went ahead and purchased the property and then discharged the lien. Is there any way to go after the original owner and put your own lien on his boat car or other property?
He would get some money from the tax sale if the bid was over the minimum? I know its probably a lost cause in most cases but has anyone heard of this situation.

[Pfm1011]

Not a chance in hell..... The owners liability only goes as far as the land .  They are in no way liable for the lien.  Additionally you were , or should have been, fully aware of the lien at time of purchase so you have no claim.  If you even try something like that , even make a call trying to bluff him, You will be slaughtered in court. Not only for damages but every judge will nail you with full costs and very nasty punitives.

[Frank]

Could any of the pros help me out with this one.
Lets say you found out a property you were looking at had a crown lien on it. You bid low taking the lein into consideration. You won the tender and went ahead and purchased the property and then discharged the lien. Is there any way to go after the original owner and put your own lien on his boat car or other property?
He would get some money from the tax sale if the bid was over the minimum? I know its probably a lost cause in most cases but has anyone heard of this situation.

PFM is correct, ...harsh...but correct. 

If there is a crown lien or any other lien, then those would get discharged by way of a distribution of the excess proceeds of sale.  If for example, the back taxes were $10,000, and you paid $100,000.  then the $90,000 would get paid into court...the crown would have first dibs at it, and if they had a lien of $140,000, then they should get the $90k and you still owe them $50k.   You should go out of your way to make sure that they know of the excess, and ask the judge for it, after the Municipality pays it into court,  otherwise they will still be looking to you for the full $140, and the old owner (in the event there were no other interested parties would be entitled to the $90k sitting in the courts.  In the event that neither of them asked for it, then after the one year waiting period, the Municipality would be entitled to claim the windfall...at your expense.

[farrouk]

Frank:  I did not know that the excess cash that the municipality gets could be applied to the crown lien. This helps alot as in some cases the bid price is way over the taxes owing.  Thanks for the info.

[Pfm1011]

" You should go out of your way to make sure that they know of the excess, and ask the judge for it, after the Municipality pays it into court"

I missed that aspect......Just when I think I know everything ..Frank, yet again , shows us who is the master.

[Frank]

" You should go out of your way to make sure that they know of the excess, and ask the judge for it, after the Municipality pays it into court"

I missed that aspect......Just when I think I know everything ..Frank, yet again , shows us who is the master.

In fact, you should do your best to get the crown and the municipality to see eye to eye, and do a direct payment to them instead of payment into court.  Payment into court, in essence, gives all of the jilted interests an opportunity to go and vie for the funds.  The crown on the other hand has first dibs and is still on title, there is no reason to pay it into court in the first place given that fact.  However, if the Crown is unaware of the sale, and fails to knock on the door at town hall prior to it being sent to the courts, then they will have to go there...but there is little onus on them (since they've got you by the gonads anyways).  The objective is to ensure that the money falls into the proper hands, and ...the squeaky wheel...well you know.

Normally, the town and the crown will already have had discussions in this matter, and it wouldn't hurt to talk to the Treasurer on the matter in advance of the sale.  Don't count however on the Municipality even knowing about the crown lien, or that they are prepared to make direct payment.

There is no guarantee on this, and you must still consider the possibility that you will be subject to the full crown lien when it is all over.  Take caution when formulating your bid as you could get burned...if, on the other hand, the crown lien is satisfied through the excess proceeds distribution, then you got lucky.

[dlow]

Hi Guys,

Another Newbie here.

I thought all property tax sale has to be free and clear? Only sheriff sale has crown lien.

Correct me if I am wrong

[Frank]

Hi Guys,

Another Newbie here.

I thought all property tax sale has to be free and clear? Only sheriff sale has crown lien.

Correct me if I am wrong

You're wrong....... You stand corrected.  Crown liens survive tax sales, as do encroachments, rights of trespass, and other unforseen items like environmental impairment, hazard land status...basically just about every rule there is, you're stuck with any occupants, and nasty neighbours as well, and in some cases, really pissed former owners.  The only thing that disappears are the outstanding taxes, and any other registered liens (that are not in the interest of the Queen...another name for Crown).