A technical question for the board On legal aspects of winning bids

[Dave2]

This question is for the pro's:

Recently I was number 2 on a tax sale bid.  The bids were opened on February 18 and I was notified by letter from the Municipality on February 19, that my deposit would be held in accordance with the normal practice for a second place bidder. 

Today not having heard from the municipality I followed up because the 14 days had come and gone last week. 

I was advised the following:

a) the first place bidder had not paid yet but is apparently still interested.
b) Apparently the Municipality had not formally advised them until last Friday because they were waiting from some forms from their lawyer for electronic registration. (this is after the 14 day expiry period).
c) The municipality takes the position that the 14 day date is from their notice letter from their treasurer
not from the tax sale. 

Question what do I do?

Dave2

[Frank]

 ???Obviously the date of the notice to the highest bidder was the same as yours, and he has not met the 14 day test, therefore they should keep his deposit, and notify you that you now have 14 days to complete the deal.   The 14 days is from the date of the notice, not the date of the sale, but why on earth would your letter be dated differently from his.

I would call the Treasurer, and ask to see a copy of the letter to the highest bidder.  He won't give it to you, but make the point that it must be the same day as yours....the Treasurer  is now obligate to come to you, and if he doesn't you will file suit for damages.   

Read him the riot act immediately, this foot dragging has to stop.  The highest bidder may be a nice guy, but he hasn't completed the deal by coming in and signing the affidafits and forking over the money, etc...   

Contact the Treasurer immediately, and advise him of his obligations, and your rights...he can't step on you...just cause the other guy still wants to complete the deal...he missed the boat - it has left the dock...the horse is out of the barn...the train has left the station...........You are now the winner, if you can complete the deal in 14 days from your next notice that you are now the only remaining bidder  pursuant to Regulation 181/03.


11.  (1)  If, after complying with section 9, two tenders remain, the treasurer shall immediately notify the higher tenderer, by ordinary mail sent to the address shown in the tender, that the tenderer will be declared to be the successful purchaser if, within 14 days of the mailing of the notice, the balance of the amount tendered, the applicable land transfer tax and the accumulated taxes are paid, in cash, to the treasurer. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (1).

(2)  If the higher tenderer makes the payment as set out in subsection (1), the treasurer shall declare the tenderer to be the successful purchaser. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (2).

(3)  If the higher tenderer does not make the payment as set out in subsection (1), the tenderer?s deposit shall be immediately forfeited to the municipality and the treasurer shall offer the parcel of land to the lower tenderer in accordance with section 12. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (3).

[Frank]

11.  (1)  If, after complying with section 9, two tenders remain, the treasurer shall immediately notify the higher tenderer, by ordinary mail sent to the address shown in the tender, that the tenderer will be declared to be the successful purchaser if, within 14 days of the mailing of the notice, the balance of the amount tendered, the applicable land transfer tax and the accumulated taxes are paid, in cash, to the treasurer. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (1).

(2)  If the higher tenderer makes the payment as set out in subsection (1), the treasurer shall declare the tenderer to be the successful purchaser. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (2).

(3)  If the higher tenderer does not make the payment as set out in subsection (1), the tenderer?s deposit shall be immediately forfeited to the municipality and the treasurer shall offer the parcel of land to the lower tenderer in accordance with section 12. O. Reg. 181/03, s. 11 (3).

Notice the operative.....the treasurer shall immediately notify the higher tenderer.....If they determined so quickly that you were the second bidder...then they must have also determined that the other guy was the high bidder, and they were obligated to immediately notify him, and the clock started to tick.   If they didn't notify him until last Friday...they really screwed up, and you may have a suit for damages regardless of whether they close with him or not.  If you lost the opportunity to complete the deal, because they screwed up, then you may be able to get cash instead of land...at least the difference between your bid, and what the other guys bid (but I would suggest that a market value appraisal might fetch more)....I would also include 'costs' in my suit since they caused you to have to expend legal dollars.   Give it a whirl, and let me know how it turns out. 

When I sued over the one penny deal (actually .8 of a cent), the Treasurer was of the opinion that he would get sued either way he turned, by me or the other guy...by letting me pursue it in court, the possibility of being sued by the other guy was voided.   He still screwed up, simply because he didn't know the rules that he needed to follow.

[farrouk]

Dave:
You've got the treasurer by the short and curlies. If you really want the property I assume you contacted him today and put your cards on the table before he digs himself a big giant hole. If they are not complete idiots they will reverse the decision and give it to you. If you don't really care about the property but have the time and energy to sue them then wait a few weeks and go after them for damages.
Getting a lawyer at this point would be a good idea as you don't want to screw up and lose the case and be stuck with their expenses.

Best of luck we are all behind you!!!

[Pfm1011]

Frank has it absolutely nailed..The treasurer must comply with the act .. I had one like that where I read the riot act to them . Just politely and very very clearly  IN WRITING  ( email is fine) demand that you be sold the land . in accordance with the section Frank provided

I would not specifically say the word "lawsuit", I would strongly suggest that the treasurer may wish to seek advice from the citys counsel   

[Frank]

Frank has it absolutely nailed..The treasurer must comply with the act .. I had one like that where I read the riot act to them . Just politely and very very clearly  IN WRITING  ( email is fine) demand that you be sold the land . in accordance with the section Frank provided

I would not specifically say the word "lawsuit", I would strongly suggest that the treasurer may wish to seek advice from the citys counsel  

 An e=mail citing chapter and verse of the regulation, and a suggestion that the Municipality will be held liable for your damages if they do not follow the rules will suffice for a start.   Don't be timid, - squeaky wheels get greased.

[worldjohn]

Dave
Have you done ALL your research and due diligence on this property? You have to wonder why the winner would give up his deposit.  Did he find something out about the land?  There may be more to this than the legal questions.
Out of curiousity which property is it and what were the bids?

[markymark]

Dave
Have you done ALL your research and due diligence on this property? You have to wonder why the winner would give up his deposit.  Did he find something out about the land?  There may be more to this than the legal questions.
Out of curiousity which property is it and what were the bids?

Was this six acres in North Bay?I visited this land if you want to save fuel,pm me.

[Dave2]

to all:

thanks for all the help and advise.  I will explain more once this is more played out.
In the interim take a look at a new topic I am posting.  Has huge ramifications for everyone.

As they say one good turn deserves another

Dave2

[Dave2]

Talked with my lawyer who is good. 

key issues are:  a) he has run into at least one problem like this before
b) Issue is very hard to prove if township stonewalls you which they will. 
c) Unlike Frank's situation which was a question of fact while I have inferences, I would have to go through a full legal discovery to prove. 
d) Biggest problem I have is too much work right now including land and other purchase opportunities.
e) Another key issue is ultimate property value.  I don't want to get sued so I will use percentages and not mention specific location where occured.  Property is not a lakefront and has no structures on it.  at least 2 hours from Toronto.   

A) Winning bid - 100% and above current assessment value
B) My bid approximately 75% of  winning bid
c) Third place finisher 1% below mine. 
d) My best estimate of value about 150 - 200% of winning bid and it might be a very tough sell for reasons that if you explore my posts you might be able to put 2 and 2 together.

conclusion it isn't worth it in this case partially because of the circumstances but the advice to second place bidders is to stay on top of it. 

Final comment is this one was a wild card from beginning.  It showed the value of field investigations.
I expected a dog but found out that this was not the case and maybe reason in the end I lost it. 

Will be monitoring real estate listing for the area

Dave2

[Frank]

conclusion it isn't worth it in this case partially because of the circumstances but the advice to second place bidders is to stay on top of it. 

Sometimes, discretion is the better part.....and it is cheaper to cut and run.