Rob is right on the ball this morning with new listings

[26.2]

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS I DO NOT GO ONTO OCCUPIED PROPERTY AS IT IS TOO RISKY.

That has always been my position.  Getting occupants out....in winter...uhhg.
I turned down sweet heart deal in the Beach decades ago because the rooming house came occupied.  Not to bad but 60 days notice for renters. A friend asked if I would have trouble sleeping. It haunted me enough to stay with unoccupied.  That is just me ,if you want to go after negligent deadbeats go ahead. They should have sold and found a place they could afford.
Does anyone have experience with acquiring occupied properties? In this game that could be an interesting topic.

[Dave2]

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS I DO NOT GO ONTO OCCUPIED PROPERTY AS IT IS TOO RISKY.

That has always been my position.  Getting occupants out....in winter...uhhg.
Does anyone have experience with acquiring occupied properties? In this game that could be an interesting topic.

Like in my last post parody I have always wondered if I was a fearless beautiful young lady if it would help me in this business particularly with this type of situation.  I actually met her a few years ago when I tried to see if people from this forum would come to a meeting and she was one of the few who showed up. Beauty and brains in one package but alas I misplaced her address.  

There are several problems with occupied properties not just with the challenge of the occupants.  First remember one of the golden rules of this business "Do not contact the owner" who is likely to be the occupant.     

Seriously ask yourself a question? "How does one make a legal    living in the wilds of Hastings County?" and Netpred's Deliverance maybe closer then you think.  There maybe serious personal risks that you do not want to face.   

Just getting to the bid winning stage is also a major problem; because occupied means building structure and it is likely that a significant portion of the tax sale property is in the structure.  It is pretty hard to value it if you never can look at it.

I have had major serious arguments with members of this board including some very knowledgble senior ones both in public and private on the costs of rehabilitating structures.  You really cannot be sure until you are inside which you cannot get into without the co-operation of the occupant.

More importantly in this case it looks like you are dealing with a bigger piece of property and a look from the property boundary may not tell you a lot about the structures.  At least in your Toronto reference case you can be close enough to the structure from the lot line to give an indication.  

Even if you get the property you have major post sale issues with the occupant which I will let others comment on.  

I joke about members of this board being wolves and using the analogy its like a wolf trying to kill a bull moose in the rutting season with a full head of antlers.  It is real risky
unless you do it right and part of my approach is not in the public domain.

In my home hunting territory I will look at this type of property but I have never got one or come close.  That is because I bid in a way that is no risk to me.  

For a beer bet Mr. Nepred with your usual odds how do I do  it?  Assume normal legal checks etc. indicate everything is okay.

[g2020]

The good Madoc property will probably be seen, with hindsight, as the best tax sale property in all of 2012. But alas, just like the good Smithville house was arguably the best tax sale property in 2011, the good ones always get redeemed - some before the sale, some after. In tax sales you only have two choices. There is either something wrong with the owner, or there is something wrong with the property. In Madoc you can bid on the footprint size property measuring 45x65. Alternatively, you can take a shot at the best property of the year, having about a half mile of frontage on Island Road, a gorgeous self contained lake (at least bigger than most things they call lakes here in Florida), and a house located in the middle of 147 beautifully wooded acres. It is assessed at $338,379.00. Of course it will likely be paid off, just like all the good ones last year. The choice is yours. You can either take a shot at the 45x65 piece of junk, or investigate the good one and have it take a shot at you. Happy hunting and Happy New Year

[Dave2]

So how many of you have ever searched for work orders? If you think that I am wrong on this, have a read of this true story:

http://taxsaleproperty.org/forum/index.php?topic=1161.0 

Netpred: 

I am going to let the cat out of the bag because you are close to the true response to my questions but at this point I will withdraw your ability to bet. 

Assuming the building is in a condition as in the reference article; how do I avoid being victimized?  Or should I claim that you already lost and claim my winnings.

[g2020]

Searching for work orders is not always as simple as just paying at the municipal office for the search. In Cornwall, for instance, they wait until your deed is registered and then send out the inspector and load it up with work orders. I had two houses there that were clean at the time of sale and then as soon as I got title the fire Marshall and building inspector had a list a mile long. I know of another tax sale purchaser who had the same problem in Cornwall. This is just one more reason why you cannot pay market value at a tax sale.

[netpred]

Nasty work by the municipality in G2020's case. Still, a search of work orders is a must. If the municipality shows up for an inspection after registration of a tax deed you should phone a lawyer (remember, only a competent and ethical one) immediately to determine your rights and obligations and the right of the municipality, if any, to enter and inspect. Do not ever make the mistake that the municipality is your friend and will help you if you play ball with them. SPEAK TO A LAWYER!

I don't know anything about this property. But there is no way that if the building is at all decent will the owner let it go. It will redeem. If it is junk, or a grow house (yes, these have been bought before), watch the sh&t hit the fan after the sale.

So G2020, if it is the best buy, it will redeem, if it does not redeem, it is not the best buy and the winner should expect big problems.

So Dave, I'm thirsty.

quote author=g2020 link=topic=1931.msg8141#msg8141 date=1326487732]
Searching for work orders is not always as simple as just paying at the municipal office for the search. In Cornwall, for instance, they wait until your deed is registered and then send out the inspector and load it up with work orders. I had two houses there that were clean at the time of sale and then as soon as I got title the fire Marshall and building inspector had a list a mile long. I know of another tax sale purchaser who had the same problem in Cornwall. This is just one more reason why you cannot pay market value at a tax sale.
[/quote]

[Dave2]

The good Madoc property will probably be seen, with hindsight, as the best tax sale property in all of 2012.  There is either something wrong with the owner, or there is something wrong with the property.  Alternatively, you can take a shot at the best property of the year, having about a half mile of frontage on Island Road, a gorgeous self contained lake (at least bigger than most things they call lakes here in Florida), and a house located in the middle of 147 beautifully wooded acres.

G2020:  

First I want to say that I am really glad to hear from you and hope you are recovering well. I hope that PFM has given you a good supply of accessories and they have a lot less clothing then Netpred's given the warmer weather. I look forward to the honour of treating you with some overdue Timbits I owe you when you return to the cold and snow after it disappears.  

I hope you are well enough that we will meet in combat again and I will of course lose but that is what happens when we come up against the alpha wolf.  Maybe I should concentrate on something easy like betting for beers against Netpred.

That said; onto business.  I think you are at least a month too early to call this a good tax sale.   The due date for bids is the 22nd of February;  A month from now is when we should start to do our investigation. IF you are still in Florida and want to do a long distance bid; you may have to advance that date slightly.

There are exceptions; such if I am driving to Ottawa and can save 3 hours of driving because I have to do it anyways; except the part north of highway 7, but they are the exception not the rule.  

Netpred no beer on this one.  My strategy is that for ones like this one I assign no value to the building, only to the land.  Yes I am too low on a lot but the ones I win I don't have to worry about because I have a reserve; and of course in this business I prefer pleasant surprises not unpleasant ones.

This is particulary true in North Hastings county townships.  Cornwall is not the only site where things happen that make you wonder.  I am not saying it is this one in particular but I know of a couple of situations including one that happened to me personally that make you wonder.  

[jima]

There is a lot of innuendo and underlying currents in this thread that I'm not getting and that's fine....I'm a rookie. Just don't take me chiming in here as laying a wager (I covet my beer to much).?just offering my 2cent on the Madoc area.
It's interesting that just a few lots west of the one where you could bid on and:
-   Get shot
-   Buy a grow-op
-   Or become Ned Beatty

A few large chunks of land have recently sold or come up for sale. I'm not saying this is like that....but it is an interesting area and it's proximity to large urban centers makes it attractive as well as it's "rich" (poor choice I know) history.
Longyear (I hope it wasn't wrong to use this companies name as some here are sensitive about names being thrown around?)  www.jmlongyear.com  purchased a large track of land (1200+ acres) for many Millions??allegedly.
There is also a large chunk just west of Longyear up for sale www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=11046861&PidKey=-1356463688
Apparently the ?Rush? back to Eldorado is on! At least it's not as far as Cochrane and the Detour Site. Now we just have to find out who/ or what Jr. Mining company is going to go for it? I'm not sure Longyear is into mining that much.

[Dave2]

There is a lot of innuendo and underlying currents in this thread that I'm not getting and that's fine....I'm a rookie. Just don't take me chiming in here as laying a wager (I covet my beer to much).?just offering my 2cent on the Madoc area.

A few large chunks of land have recently sold or come up for sale. I'm not saying this is like that....but it is an interesting area and it's proximity to large urban centers makes it attractive as well as it's "rich" (poor choice I know) history.

Jima:

Before you get too excited about this area Its history has a darker side; one of the worst environmental disasters in Ontario (caused by Arsenic and Radon).   If you use the search function
on this website sometimes you find some interesting things; Like what PFM or myself wrote a couple of years ago.   First the update since we wrote about it and then the original posts.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en/local/deloro_mine_site_cleanup_project/index.htm

My Original One: Gracious:

Just a warning to you and everyone on the property north of highway 7 close to the Madoc / Marmora townline.   Just to the Northwest of this site is one of the most contaminated sites in Ontario the Infamous Deloro Minesite which has some really nice things like arsenic and radon.  
If you don't believe me the attached URL will give some background.

http://www.portalonline.org/Kristy/Artof_deloro/map.html

(I have highlighted the map section to help people see how close.)

If you drive along highway 7 around  Madoc/Marmora you will see the high barbed wire fence from the road and warning signs.  Not certain how close this is to the tax sale property but I would be sure to check it out before biding as well as water flows.    This is really ugly stuff.  

Dave2

PFM's Comments

wow...I knew Eldorado ( Cameco) has done a job on port hope..but this makes port hope look like a joke..This link really sums up the whole mess...

http://www.e-b-i.net/ebi/Deloro/articles/del980420.html

It certainly was nice of us to take stuff from Oakridge.. My favourite is the government sealed the mines with cement "so nobody would fall in" (sure they did!!)

What I dont get , what sort of morons would raise children there knowing full well that there is a danger..    

Thanks Dave, I had no clue this existed and have looked for land south of there,   Love Canal..bunch of amatuers  ...very very nasty..
The cute part is the Goverment is not cleaning the site , simply sealing in clay....which always fails eventually  Its safe because "tree roots dont penetrate 4 feet"

IF you check the real estate listing you notice it is on Deloro road.  Of course a real estate agent would never over promise? would they?  

[Dave2]

I want to make a second post because Rob is a class act and I know he wants to have nothing to do with a subject like my last post. 

Board:

We are 5 votes short of giving Rob his very worthwhile due; lets put a push on and finish the job.

He deserves it.

Dave2

[jima]

How do you take your coffee?. Double Double?..Double arsenic and Double radon?.I guess I'll be thinking twice when I stop for coffee at the Tim's at 7 and 62. I guess that is why you're an advanced member? I have wondered about the fencing along Hwy 7 west of 62? It's funny that there is a Conservation area just north of there?
Getting back to the tax sale land.....my comments were just some info on what I've seen in the area lately. I'm more looking for land closer to home, but what has been going on in the area is a little shocking. The tax sale land is fairly far north (I know it's not far for all the nice stuff at Deloro) $$$?s drive people to do crazy things and I'm sure if there was any money to be made on the  resources of the area whatever needed to get done will or they will fake it. Again what else would one do in the back woods of Hastings?  I'm also not sure Longyear would dump so much money into their site unless they are pretty sure of what they have (or they've made a big mistake). It's interesting for sure and I wonder what will go on?as others have said it will probably be redeemed anyway. Gold (or the hint of it) makes people do crazy things. Aren't you happy for that up in Cochrane?

[DRD]

To Rob

Keep up the good work buddy.   +1

To the chickens, your good buddy remington will make it a fair fight.

Cheers

Doug

[Dave2]

To Rob

Keep up the good work buddy.   +1

Cheers Doug 

First the important post, Rob right on ball again this morning (he must get up before the chickens) and we are only 2 votes short of magic 100.

[Dave2]

How do you take your coffee?. Double Double?..Double arsenic and Double radon?.

Getting back to the tax sale land.....my comments were just some info on what I've seen in the area lately. I'm more looking for land closer to home, but what has been going on in the area is a little shocking.

Jima:

I prefer double rum with my coffee; but Timmies does not stock it.  

I actually had hoped to swing by the tax sale property when I drove by on highway 7 back from Ottawa a couple of days ago, but it was snowing so hard I could not even see the fence you referrred to so I decided to wait and see what are developments.  As I mentioned earlier we are still a couple of weeks too early before we normally start to get serious.  

The Deloro property may or not impact the tax sale property directly as I have not looked closely by the origins of the Moira river flow north of Highway 7.  Indirectly though it is important to people looking for a quck flip.  All I wanted to do was give people a heads up, so it could be investigated in spite of DRD's dig at us chickens.    

I support your look close to home strategy; because it is the one I also follow.  Not certain how much you can read into the American investment in this area as they have been investing around North Hastings for a long time.  For example an American company (by memory it may have been Sawyer Stone from Wisconsin) had lands from the early 1950's and owned the Tweed sawmill/ pallet plant; before Bill Tomlinson and a  local partner bought it from them 25 -30 years ago.  

Other information I have is private domain.  

In any event Jima; you Netpred, and DRD (I owe him one from a couple of years ago), are probably safe from me on the North Madoc one.  I just have too much on my plate most of which is not tax sale purchases that I have to put money into before selling.

I do not have infinite resources and while G2020 maybe right in his call, I don't like to bet everything on the first sale of the year.  There will be more, particularly as an off board
resource has signaled there is something coming up that I maybe interested in.

[Dave2]

I use to love when they released the listings Friday at 5pm in the summer one year. 

Rob:

I would just like to note that your Positive Karma is finally up to the minimum level I would consider acceptable given the great work you do.  We appreciate it.

Thanks for all your tireless effort and the great work.

Dave2